Email or username:

Password:

Forgot your password?
Lance R. Vick's posts Post Back to profile
Top-level
joelcrump

@lrvick I hate to play devil's advocate, here, because I do sense a bit of arbitrariness in their decision, but is it so onerous to get a smartphone? I was skeptical of them myself, being an old computer nerd, but found them invaluable when I eventually used them.

12 March at 1:33 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mastodon.social
21 comments
Holland 🏳️‍⚧️🚩🏴

@joelcrump @lrvick yes, it is so onerous. The fact that simply USING the smartphone on a basic level requires constant & egregious privacy cviolations & agreement to "terms of service" that functionally mean the company can exploit you & every scrap of data your movements, proximity to other people (with smartphones), browsing & shopping habits, etc. For some the convenience is not worth it & that should be a valid choice. It should be considered a huge & onerous decision to use a smart device.

12 March at 7:47 | Open on mastodon.social
joelcrump

@itsmeholland @lrvick OK, interesting perspective, I have nothing to hide in my life, but I could understand your point.

12 March at 10:19 | Open on mastodon.social
Lance R. Vick

@joelcrump @itsmeholland

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

~ Edward Snowden

12 March at 11:34 | Open on mastodon.social
Lance R. Vick

@joelcrump @itsmeholland I am a security researcher and have been close to mobile development since Android was created. I even released some of my own de-googled mobile operating systems over the years.

I was connected 24/7 to the point it was impacting my mental health and relationships. Also the privacy and security issues created by modern app culture are immense.

I don't have a phone now by choice, and am happier for it. I feel this should be a choice everyone has.

12 March at 11:41 | Open on mastodon.social
joelcrump

@lrvick @itsmeholland I believe that I'm more likely to benefit from the constant monitoring, than for it to be exploited in a way that harms me. Having a digital device that identifies and knows the location of me is valuable.

12 March at 14:16 | Open on mastodon.social
Danny Boling ☮️

@joelcrump

That's great —for you (and lots of others). It's not great for the OP. See how that works?

@lrvick @itsmeholland

12 March at 19:14 | Open on mstdn.social
joelcrump

@IAmDannyBoling I'm not bothered by others exercising their right to miss out on a pocket PC.

12 March at 20:47 | Open on mastodon.social
Kee Hinckley

@joelcrump Paraphrasing a post I saw recently. The issue is not whether you have anything to hide, it’s whether you can trust the people who get hold of your data to use it ethically. Is there nothing your phone tracks that couldn’t be used by someone with a grudge against you? Correctly or not? Speeding info? Your boss knowing you’re looking for a job?

12 March at 14:11 | Open on infosec.exchange
joelcrump

@nazgul I dunno, that sounds paranoid.

12 March at 16:40 | Open on mastodon.social
Maggie Maybe

@joelcrump @nazgul oh it probably does for a white man. Sorry I replied to you as if I was talking to a woman, or anyone who doesn’t have equal rights with someone like you. So you can disregard my Planned Parenthood stuff. You’ll never have to worry about not being allowed to have reproductive rights or get medical care because of your gender. Carry on.

12 March at 18:34 | Open on zeroes.ca
joelcrump

@maggiejk @nazgul Forgive me if I unintentionally implied anything like you seem to have taken it to mean, I don't think it would be right to exploit such personal information to use against someone.

12 March at 18:38 | Open on mastodon.social
Maggie Maybe

@joelcrump @nazgul well you kind of did when you said you didn’t care because you had nothing to hide. That kind of implies that only people who are doing sketchy things should care about their privacy.

And I guess I’m just marveling at your lack of concern, then I realized that you probably aren’t affected by the fascism that’s happening.

12 March at 18:39 | Open on zeroes.ca
Maggie Maybe

@nazgul @joelcrump I think some of these people were too young to remember when employers started firing people who smoked cigarettes off the clock. That was only in 2008 or 2009.

Joel looks old enough to remember 2008.
Right around that time I also knew people who had their credit card limits slashed in half by the banks because they shopped where poor people shopped. They went to Walmart, and that made Bank of America think they might default on their credit line so they would slash it in half. And it was upsetting for these people because they were in the middle of home renovations or trying to plan a vacation or something.

To play devils advocate here, you want to give up your freedom (to smoke a cigarette or shop at Walmart) so that you can make a doctors appointment with a smart phone?

@nazgul @joelcrump I think some of these people were too young to remember when employers started firing people who smoked cigarettes off the clock. That was only in 2008 or 2009.

Joel looks old enough to remember 2008.
Right around that time I also knew people who had their credit card limits slashed in half by the banks because they shopped where poor people shopped. They went to Walmart, and that made Bank of America think they might default on their credit line so they would slash it in half....

12 March at 18:38 | Open on zeroes.ca
DELETED

@maggiejk
Just gonna also point out that Joel's zero-follow, zero-follower, zero-bio account was created just 4 days after this whole issue was first posted about by @lrvick, and their only posts have been replies in this thread, what are the odds
@nazgul

13 March at 15:49 | Open on mstdn.patatas.ca
Kee Hinckley

@smallpatatas @maggiejk @lrvick I certainly hadn’t heard that argument made in years, except by trolls.

Fortunately Mona lets me add notes to accounts so I know why I blocked them.

13 March at 16:57 | Open on infosec.exchange
Maggie Maybe

@joelcrump @itsmeholland @lrvick for now. But I don’t know if you’ve noticed that things that we used to have a right to do are now illegal. If you’ve ever entered a Planned Parenthood in your life for anything while you had a smart phone the government might put you on some kind of a list. For example. And if you weren’t using government insurance at the Planned Parenthood they would have no way of knowing you were there because we have privacy rights regarding our medical information. But if you’ve agreed to the smart phone terms that google maps can sell your data then anybody can know you went to Planned Parenthood if Google sells them the data

@joelcrump @itsmeholland @lrvick for now. But I don’t know if you’ve noticed that things that we used to have a right to do are now illegal. If you’ve ever entered a Planned Parenthood in your life for anything while you had a smart phone the government might put you on some kind of a list. For example. And if you weren’t using government insurance at the Planned Parenthood they would have no way of knowing you were there because we have privacy rights regarding our medical information. But if you’ve...

12 March at 18:33 | Open on zeroes.ca
Dec.tar.bz2

@joelcrump @itsmeholland @lrvick
"BREAKING NEWS: Devil's advocate understands someone else's point."

14 March at 12:20 | Open on mastodon.ie
joelcrump

@dec23k I accept that people are uneasy giving away some personal information.

14 March at 14:15 | Open on mastodon.social
Maggie Maybe

@joelcrump @lrvick you really believe people should have to agree to Apple or googles terms of service in order to get a doctors appointment?

Really? That’s the point here not that this person is intimidated by the phone itself

12 March at 18:35 | Open on zeroes.ca
Mre. Dartigen [maker mode]

@joelcrump Adding to other points made, a smartphone also means another device to have to remember and use, keep charged, etc. Accessibility on Android and iOS still has a ton of issues, and these are often at their worst during set up - OP hasn't mentioned these, but they're worth considering in a healthcare context.

If it's over an app as well, you can't just buy the cheapest Android phone, because odds are that won't have the power or the right version to run it (as I learned the hard way once). So that means extra cost in having to buy a sufficiently new model to run that app.

And given how many apps are just a wrapper for a Web page, there is almost no absolute reason for requiring an Android or iOS device specifically - people have mentioned Linux phones and devices too. And hell, Windows exists too. All of these can access a Web page just fine.

Plus, OP was initially told the app was optional.

@joelcrump Adding to other points made, a smartphone also means another device to have to remember and use, keep charged, etc. Accessibility on Android and iOS still has a ton of issues, and these are often at their worst during set up - OP hasn't mentioned these, but they're worth considering in a healthcare context.

12 March at 22:33 | Open on aus.social
Go Up