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Dave Mc

@yogthos I'm embarrassed to say that I'm a subscriber. Are any of the other streaming services more ethical to their employees and to artists?

45 comments
Yogthos

@guigsy not sure actually, I never got into using streaming services myself, I just like having music files.

What I ended up doing was to dump music on my own nextcloud, and use it as my private streaming service.

Obviously not a solution for everyone though.

Charles U. Farley

@yogthos @guigsy There are plenty of apps that will let you download songs from YouTube Music without having an account. On Android there are also apps that will let you stream from there without an account and without ads, with recommendations and everything. I like RiMusic and SimpMusic.

Shufei 👩🏽‍🌾

@freakazoid @yogthos @guigsy Googlebet hates it when anyone mentions and uses #invidious. But there’s not a thing they can really do about it, haha.

invidious.io/

Charles U. Farley

@Shufei @yogthos @guigsy They can, but it would involve breaking a lot of older players. I imagine the medium to long term plan is DRM.

Dave Mc

@freakazoid @Shufei @yogthos Google have no issues with breaking stuff that's working perfectly if they aren't making advertising money from it.

Charles U. Farley

@guigsy @Shufei @yogthos I figure that's the clock, ultimately. When they no longer feel they're making more money on players that would be broken by DRM than they're losing by not using DRM, they'll pull the trigger.

DELETED

@freakazoid

@yogthos

@guigsy

I've been using NewPipe for years now, and it's my personal favorite.

Shufei 👩🏽‍🌾

@yogthos @guigsy Nextclouds should be run as metropolitan public utilities. There’s no reason they can’t.

Amin Hollon 🇺🇸🇲🇾🇮🇳🇦🇫

@yogthos @guigsy

Local music files I actually own is what I've settled on too. I built up my intial collection with a bunch of used CDs bought on clearance for 50¢ each at a local used book store.

Maltita

@yogthos @guigsy Tidal is the highest (or second) payer to musicians per play and still hasn't announced any layoffs. The bar is low, I know haha

Strongthany🇺🇦

@guigsy @yogthos purchasing the music outright from the artists via bandcamp or other similar sites, or hell on CD if it's available, is always the best option to directly support the artist. You can also use a self hosted streaming service like #funkwhale keep the ease of streaming.

Dave Mc

@strongthany @yogthos didn't Bandcamp recently fire half the staff, purely for corporate reasons?

Strongthany🇺🇦

@guigsy @yogthos when band camp was working on unionizing, the union seeking workers urged people and artists asked for people to not support artists by not using bandcamp

JimmyChezPants

@strongthany @guigsy @yogthos

The game right now among all capitalists is to keep us exhausted and make it look like the goalposts are ever-receding memories of a false consciousness that we're not sure ever actually existed.

Just keep yourself prepared for the day that they cannot maintain the delusion any longer. They are each individually too narcissistic and lacking Theory Of Mind to understand the tension they are building and how it will come back at them.

Drop money in buskers' hats.

JimmyChezPants

@strongthany @guigsy @yogthos

If you attend shows, attend shows at bars that hire bands and have a reputation for paying their bands and staff.

Solidarity is the only thing that every one of us can choose to exercise, if we want it.

I got notification this week that the extra storage I'm paying for on Google renews in a month, and I'm cancelling that.

I stood up a Nextcloud not too long ago. I'll be sharing it with friends who want it. I can do that.

JimmyChezPants

@strongthany @guigsy @yogthos

Send bands you like twenty dollars in a letter. Use postal service money orders for that matter. Order swag maybe.

Send more if you plan to torrent their albums, which they almost certainly don't see as the biggest problem they have right now.

Hat. Cat in an N95😷

@jpaskaruk ableism is the OPPOSITE of helpful.

so called Theory of mind is straight up hate for ND people.

JimmyChezPants

@CatHat

I had not heard that the term is considered problematic, but I'd be happy to read a document that explains what makes it so.

What I'm referring to is the ability to understand that other people's minds contain different thoughts and ideas than one's own.

I was very confused about that myself, when I was younger.

Hat. Cat in an N95😷

@jpaskaruk something which cats can do.
And bluejays.
And SQUIRRELS.
The idea is that autistic people have no theory of mind
And it works out eventually to ND people aren't sentient .

"that other entity has a mind and it might see me" is something MICE need to know.

It usually doesn't go that far but its roughly the same idea that's behind ABA.

That autistic people don't have an internal reality

@jpaskaruk something which cats can do.
And bluejays.
And SQUIRRELS.
The idea is that autistic people have no theory of mind
And it works out eventually to ND people aren't sentient .

"that other entity has a mind and it might see me" is something MICE need to know.

It usually doesn't go that far but its roughly the same idea that's behind ABA.

JimmyChezPants

@CatHat

Shoot me some links if you want to. I don't see what you're describing, and as I said, I have found the concept useful in explaining some of my early social experiences.

Whatever the case, I was referring to a different class of mind entirely - that of a child who is never held to account, and who holds incredible power over all of us.

Part of my understanding of how psychology thinks of it is that [all] children need to develop it, and some people struggle, and some never do.

Hat. Cat in an N95😷

@jpaskaruk im telling you as someone autistic that using psychological terms as a way to denigrate people

Is ableist
CHILDREN ARE NOT ADULTS.
And ADULTS do not have minds LIKE CHILDREN.
Im done with this conversation.

JimmyChezPants replied to Hat. Cat in an N95😷

@CatHat

I'm telling you as someone autistic that you don't own autism.

:David Campey replied to JimmyChezPants

@jpaskaruk @CatHat to hazard a toe dip into a difficult conversation. It seems:
- you both know what theory of mind is, but that you have experienced it differently.
- Both being autistic, you have encountered the phrase.

But that experience has been different. For one the term comes with a belittling judgement of the autistic mind.

I guess using the term brings with it baggage of context of the diagnosis. Perhaps saying "lacking empathy" might make the same point and avoid trauma.

Peace ☯️

@jpaskaruk @CatHat to hazard a toe dip into a difficult conversation. It seems:
- you both know what theory of mind is, but that you have experienced it differently.
- Both being autistic, you have encountered the phrase.

But that experience has been different. For one the term comes with a belittling judgement of the autistic mind.

JimmyChezPants replied to :David

@davidcampey

Not tagging the other person cause they're done they said.

There's an assumption that I was applying a moral judgement. I actually was not. I see the ruling class as a bunch of very sick people who need to be taken to the woods and made to do things like chop their own wood, cook their own food, carry their own water, for at least a year. Because they are sick, and that will likely heal them.

Of course we need to take their power away first. Nonviolently ideally, but...

JimmyChezPants replied to JimmyChezPants

@davidcampey

My oldest friend exhibits symptoms of narcissism and borderline and so forth, and we actually ceased contact not too long ago because he is harming people and sees it as the other people's fault; any other action I could take would only make it worse. He accused me of some pretty heinous stuff as I walked away.

I still see him as sick, not evil, and while I doubt he will, I hope he finds help that works. I hope the failsons who have never been held to account for anything also.

:David Campey replied to JimmyChezPants

@jpaskaruk On the point of the assumption, I personally didn't assume your l were making a moral judgement, but rather using a term that had meaning for you.

However it was received in a different context overloaded with other meanings, and so sparked ire.

The use of the term is, I think what was initially objected to. Given that it might have implications to others beyond your intent, it might be worth reconsidering choice of term for more effective communication in a crucial conversation.

JimmyChezPants replied to :David

@davidcampey

I don't think empathy is what they lack, though - I think they are living in a bubble of unreality and surrounded by yes people who do not make them listen to, for instance, the actually-knowledgeable scientists and tech workers who understand the world that they have the option to not need to live in.

A sociopath lacks empathy - if I have to armchair diagnose, I prefer to diagnose them with having distorted vision, rather than being fundamentally evil.

JimmyChezPants replied to JimmyChezPants

@davidcampey

I have also lived in a bubble of unreality because the people around me either could not or would not force me to see certain things in more than abstract terms. There was family affluence involved, but not just that, and more importantly, reality did finally assert itself to me in various ways I could not discount.

Someone who was born into more privilege, and never faced the mildly-difficult choices that made me see, has a disease, but it's not necessarily evil.

JimmyChezPants replied to JimmyChezPants

@davidcampey

My original comment was essentially, "they know not what they do," and that is what I think is at play here. It is very easy to create paper bogeymen and say things are easy; I decline to do so, even if it is very clear that those holding power right now have no connection to reality.

2xfo

@guigsy @strongthany @yogthos
Yes. I believe the workers started forming a union and the company was sold during the negotiations. The new owners determined who was important to keep and laid off almost all of the unionizing leaders, which coincidentally decimated diversity representation there.

I think. (Full honesty, I'm not going to look it up right now)

AccordionBruce

@guigsy @strongthany @yogthos

The @bandcampunited Union never suggested people should stop using Bandcamp to support artists

Today is #BandcampFriday when around 90% of the proceeds from purchases go directly to artists — which is way better than any other platform

And that means, regardless of the corporate policies, you’re not giving that much to the corporation

It sucks that #Bandcamp has gone through shitty buyouts

But it’s probably one of the better ways to support artists right now

Jacket

@strongthany @guigsy @yogthos 7digital is the best. They give you the format you want. They even have flac!

CubeOfCheese

@guigsy @yogthos Tidal pays artists a lot better. Not sure about employee treatment though

pettter

@guigsy @yogthos short answer is 'no', really. Bandcamp is decent to artists (but no longer to workers, if it ever was), but it's not exactly a streaming service.

thedarkpleco

@guigsy @yogthos
I have heard that Deezer pays artists more and is a good alternative. I buy my music outright though, I don't have experience with Deezer.

Julien Barnoin

@guigsy @yogthos
An ambitious technical solution can be envisioned to this issue of depending on these centralized services.
I hear nowadays music can even be bought from artists and stored locally on your device, wherefrom it can then be played back.
An outlandish idea for sure but some say it's feasible.

Jérôme Petazzoni

@guigsy @yogthos personally I use ublock origin to get rid of YouTube ads (and deprive them of ad revenue) and when I regularly watch someone's videos I support them thru Patreon or similar platforms. Probably very imperfect still!

Edit: hadn't realized it was specifically about music streaming 🤔

MetaBrainz

@guigsy @yogthos It’s all a bit of a nightmare… All I* can do is encourage everyone to divorce their listening data (which is a item of corp. value) from the platform they are currently using, by connecting to www.listenbrainz.org. At least then you can be flexible when issues arise.

Keep in mind that this lets you control and migrate data but makes it *more* public, so weigh that up against your privacy goals first. -a

*do I need to disclaim that I have bias? You can see the account name 😜

INPC

@guigsy @yogthos No. all the streaming services are terrible. Tidal is the least terrible. The only real way to support independent musicians now is buying product from say Bandcamp or FairCamp or going to shows/buying merchandise.

Sorry to say it but it’s the truth.

Raff Karva

@guigsy @yogthos

Buying albums directly from the artist.

Ducky Marshall

@guigsy @yogthos We've got Nebula for videos and podcasts but it's a significantly smaller collection of creators.

Marco Bresciani

@guigsy
Not sure if it's fine for you: this is a list of alternatives to Spotify.

lealternative.net/2020/05/06/a

Web page in Italian but judy grab thr links there and try.
@yogthos

Kari'boka

@guigsy @yogthos the only way out is pirating. Or throwing capitalism down.

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