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Dan W

@mike805 @buermann
That’s the thing.
The way manufacturers subsidise the price of all the superfluous electronic features is by selling your soul to the Data Brokers.

22 February at 2:18 | Wall-to-wall | Open on aus.social
22 comments
Dan W

@mike805 @buermann
That said, if the manufacturer does have integrity and you are able to trust them, those telematics are essential to an efficient drive in an EV.
Accurate Weather, Route and Scheduling data can (theoretically) provide a more efficient charging schedule.

22 February at 4:52 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified:

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann which can also be done with a phone, which does not need to be connected to the vehicle in any way.

22 February at 9:43 | Open on aus.social
Dan W

@kudra @mike805 @buermann
Vehicle Telemetry like battery temp control, cabin climate control, range, etc is outside the scope of ICE Phone interfaces like CarPlay and Android Auto.
Vehicle manufacturers may also be reluctant to share this info with phone manufacturers. Remember Porsche and Google butting heads over Android Auto?

22 February at 9:51 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified:

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann sure, there may be some tweaks that can be gained from some vehicle info, but I'm pretty happy with a smart phone and a "dumb" 10yo EV 😊

22 February at 10:07 | Open on aus.social
Dan W

@kudra @mike805 @buermann
That’s why I drive a Jimny. Bare minimum driver assistance, compact and a tiny engine.

The reason why EVs are not for me are still lack of infrastructure where I want to go.
There isn’t a charging station at the top of Billy Goats Track or on the Old Telegraph Track; river crossings are probably not a good thing for any EV.
The only EV off-road vehicles are monstrous and impractical.

22 February at 19:20 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified:

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann all EVs can charge from 240v, and I believe more and more will come with solar charging integrated in future, so I think off road EVs will improve dramatically, though right now they are not ideal. Yeah river crossings will probably still be out, so you have a point though surely you can flood the engine in a 4wd if you cross a deep enough river, though imagine you just have you wait for things to dry out... But even 4wd has a battery, so I'm sure they can make EV big batteries more waterproof too.

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann all EVs can charge from 240v, and I believe more and more will come with solar charging integrated in future, so I think off road EVs will improve dramatically, though right now they are not ideal. Yeah river crossings will probably still be out, so you have a point though surely you can flood the engine in a 4wd if you cross a deep enough river, though imagine you just have you wait for things to dry out... But even 4wd has a battery, so I'm sure they can make EV big batteries...

22 February at 19:46 | Open on aus.social
Dan W

@kudra @mike805 @buermann
There used to be sexist jokes about people bringing hair-dryers camping. “What are you going to plug it in to? A tree?”
Now those jokes are being applied to EV owners who claim to be able to charge from 230V-AC.
Besides, sometimes there aren’t even any trees around 😉.

ICE vehicles can have some basic retrofits to make them suitable for river crossings. Most real 4WDs have electronic components mounted as high in the body as possible, to reduce the damage from a failed water crossing. This is not possible in EVs because the main electrical components are as low as possible for functionality reasons.

@kudra @mike805 @buermann
There used to be sexist jokes about people bringing hair-dryers camping. “What are you going to plug it in to? A tree?”
Now those jokes are being applied to EV owners who claim to be able to charge from 230V-AC.
Besides, sometimes there aren’t even any trees around 😉.

ICE vehicles can have some basic retrofits to make them suitable for river crossings. Most real 4WDs have electronic components mounted as high in the body as possible, to reduce the damage from a failed water...

22 February at 22:32 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified: replied to Dan

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann surely they can mount the EV battery in a waterproof tub of some kind for this kind of use case, I'm not a electrical engineer or car designer but I'm sure there can be ways around this and maintain the lower location of the battery.

I've charged my EV multiple times from completely off grid chargers, both AC and DC. There will be more and more of these available in remote locations, the tech is actually pretty affordable now even for DC, and you don't even need a ridiculously huge solar install.

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann surely they can mount the EV battery in a waterproof tub of some kind for this kind of use case, I'm not a electrical engineer or car designer but I'm sure there can be ways around this and maintain the lower location of the battery.

I've charged my EV multiple times from completely off grid chargers, both AC and DC. There will be more and more of these available in remote locations, the tech is actually pretty affordable now even for DC, and you don't even need a ridiculously...

22 February at 22:37 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra

@kudra @mike805 @buermann
There are off-grid chargers in some regional locations, but they are generally powered by a combination of Solar power and a battery bank and large diesel generators.

There was recently a meme going round showing one of these locations, with a queue of EVs waiting while the generators groan on in the background.
They were all impractical oversized EVs .

Lots of non-technical people underestimate how much power is needed to charge an EV battery and how long it takes. An EQA has a 66.5 kWh battery. A 10A 230V-AC can supply 2.3kW per hour.

At full power, with no loss (which would be impossible) it would theoretically take 29 hours to charge.
Practically, it would take much longer.

@kudra @mike805 @buermann
There are off-grid chargers in some regional locations, but they are generally powered by a combination of Solar power and a battery bank and large diesel generators.

There was recently a meme going round showing one of these locations, with a queue of EVs waiting while the generators groan on in the background.
They were all impractical oversized EVs .

22 February at 23:11 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified: replied to Dan

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann my EV weighs HALF that of an ICE ute. Yes, that's including the battery. HALF.

I live regionally, about 2.5 hours drive to central Melbourne. I have no trouble getting to and from the city, and even to remote locations, even with a smaller 30 kwh battery. I could definitely, if I wanted, travel around Australia, if I was willing to stop overnight in some places. Yes, even the Nullarbor.

Yes, at this stage most off grid power installations of any kind, EV charger or otherwise, have a diesel generator backup. As we get better at capturing seasonal excess energy (lots of technology being developed in this area, but no clear winners as yet) diesel backup will be less needed. But the vast majority of peoples current use of ICE vehicles would be quite comfortably covered by back to base charging. There's so much hysteria over the lack of infrastructure that only affects a small percentage of users.

@Salvo @mike805 @buermann my EV weighs HALF that of an ICE ute. Yes, that's including the battery. HALF.

I live regionally, about 2.5 hours drive to central Melbourne. I have no trouble getting to and from the city, and even to remote locations, even with a smaller 30 kwh battery. I could definitely, if I wanted, travel around Australia, if I was willing to stop overnight in some places. Yes, even the Nullarbor.

22 February at 23:57 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra

@kudra that lack critical infrastructure that only affects a minority of users is very detrimental to that minority of users.

Imagine living in Cockatoo or Coronet Bay this past week and only having an EV to get around?

Now imagine living in somewhere even more remote?

23 February at 0:05 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified: replied to Dan

@Salvo if you were off grid or had a home battery with an it would not have been an issue: and this may surprise you, but... a lot of EV owners also have home batteries.

halcolenergy.com.au/solar-news

23 February at 0:10 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified: replied to Kudra

@Salvo and the Aptera will be coming to Australia. The next gen of BEVs are those that (for most daily use) don't *ever* need charging.

news.com.au/technology/motorin

23 February at 0:14 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra

@kudra that would be wonderful.
It will be interesting to see how practical they are and how well they perform for Australia.
Back in the 1980s we led the world for solar-powered car R&D.

23 February at 3:12 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra
Kudra :maybe_verified: replied to Dan

@Salvo yup! nice video, good to see random test drives that are so informative and positive!

23 February at 8:30 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra

@kudra …and acknowledging the flaws.
The key takeaway for the video is that the Solar is a marketing gimmick and the real benefit is the efficiency of the vehicle.

Lightweight, compact vehicles are the real solution. A Hybrid Kei car is a much better option than a giant 3499kg light truck EV claiming to be an SUV.

23 February at 8:36 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified: replied to Dan

@Salvo no disagreement there except the solar being a marketing gimmick... it's absolutely practical, especially for off grid use. I mean, I haven't got around to doing it yet but I plan on putting at least 500w on the roof of my Minicab-MiEV, so I can charge the car when I am camping, parked away from a charger... I actually got reenthused about the Aptera after reading this article about a dude converting an old ICE van and covering it in solar panels...

abc.net.au/news/2024-02-17/zig

solar charging is totally not a gimmick. It's going to be very obvious in hindsight, just like rooftop solar is now.

@Salvo no disagreement there except the solar being a marketing gimmick... it's absolutely practical, especially for off grid use. I mean, I haven't got around to doing it yet but I plan on putting at least 500w on the roof of my Minicab-MiEV, so I can charge the car when I am camping, parked away from a charger... I actually got reenthused about the Aptera after reading this article about a dude converting an old ICE van and covering it in solar panels...

23 February at 8:53 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra

@kudra my Jimny also weighs half of an ICE Ute.
I also only have a range of about 3-500km per fill, but I can fasten an extra Jerry can to the roof rack and go another 3-500km.
If I tow a trailer full of Jerry-cans, I could travel around Australia, although just like adding a larger battery to an EV, there are diminishing returns.

Unfortunately, because the Jimny has a limited GVM, I can’t carry any more on the roof…

@kudra my Jimny also weighs half of an ICE Ute.
I also only have a range of about 3-500km per fill, but I can fasten an extra Jerry can to the roof rack and go another 3-500km.
If I tow a trailer full of Jerry-cans, I could travel around Australia, although just like adding a larger battery to an EV, there are diminishing returns.

23 February at 3:17 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra

@kudra
The tub would need to be waterproof, dust proof, shock proof and would also need to be protected from intrusion.
Add to that that off-road vehicles do need lots of clearance and that even though an EV battery is heavy, the main material, Lithium is actually lighter than water so would be bouyant. Not ideal for water crossings.

EV batteries also run coolant systems so any contamination from river water would be catastrophic.

@kudra
The tub would need to be waterproof, dust proof, shock proof and would also need to be protected from intrusion.
Add to that that off-road vehicles do need lots of clearance and that even though an EV battery is heavy, the main material, Lithium is actually lighter than water so would be bouyant. Not ideal for water crossings.

22 February at 23:55 | Open on aus.social
Kudra :maybe_verified: replied to Dan

@Salvo hah. I had more problem with my former ICE vehicle while living somewhere with 3km of terrible potholed gravel road, than I ever had with my EV, due to dust.

23 February at 0:06 | Open on aus.social
Dan W replied to Kudra

@kudra I keep a spare air filter for my Jimny under the seat.
I am fortunate enough to have the mechanical knowledge, tools and skill to perform this service myself, but I see dozens of customers who either don’t know it is a problem, or don’t think it is a big enough problem to fix it or have someone fit it for them.

While EVs can be more robust in some conditions, they can be much more fragile in other conditions.

I am not against EVs at all, but they are not the solution for everyone. The Market should have accepted hybrids decades ago. We would be where we need to be if they had. We are not there yet and the technology and infrastructure is definitely not there for the majority of Australians.

@kudra I keep a spare air filter for my Jimny under the seat.
I am fortunate enough to have the mechanical knowledge, tools and skill to perform this service myself, but I see dozens of customers who either don’t know it is a problem, or don’t think it is a big enough problem to fix it or have someone fit it for them.

23 February at 0:12 | Open on aus.social
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