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Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Recently @lutris put up anti-cheat notices on game pages. Cool 👍 but then also links right to a cheats website 🤦‍♂️

This is not the way and actively harms how the project looks. I really hope they reconsider removing it.

It’s like linking directly to a pirate website for indie games. Oh but you don’t support it you just link to it easily for people? Don’t be stupid. See sense please.🙏

19 comments
Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@lutris The statement on the pages with the cheat site link act more like a tantrum, than informing users. Just not a good look.

topi

@gamingonlinux @lutris Yeah, linking Linux to cheating isn't great. Cathook for TF2 already gave Linux gamers a bad rep.

marcin mikołajczak
@gamingonlinux @lutris Linking to a pirate website for indie games hurts the indie game developers. Linking to a cheat website hurts the rootkit developers. I can see a difference.
Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@mkljczk @lutris you don’t gain respect and get people to listen to you by doing stupid shit like this

marcin mikołajczak

@gamingonlinux @lutris But this is not to make game publishers listen to Lutris devs. This is intended to inform the users that invasive anticheats sacrifice user privacy and OS compatibility, while not doing their job too well.

Though a link to some YouTube PeerTube video covering how kernel-level anticheats still get bypassed might be a better idea. But someone could say that this still encourages cheating anyway.

Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@mkljczk @lutris you do not need to link to a cheats website to inform users, that’s just ridiculous

marcin mikołajczak
@gamingonlinux @lutris So they should claim that cheats exist and are easily accessible without providing evidence?
Bartłomiej Garbiec 🇺🇦

@gamingonlinux @mkljczk @lutris
But if you claim something (here that anticheat doesn't work), you should share a proof for that.

The same as you share research papers when you want talk/mention about them.

marcin mikołajczak

@garbulix @gamingonlinux @lutris They could provide link to this video. I haven't watched it yet, so not much to say about it, but I see it got quite popular in the Linux gaming community

Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@garbulix @mkljczk @lutris Not everything needs a direct source link, honestly this is basic level common sense for stuff that can do harm

lizzy :v_trans: :v_bi:

@gamingonlinux @lutris no, because cheating in video games can be a legitimate way to play the game. free software means cheating resources should not be censored. it is the responsibility of the user to use those tools ethically, in contexts where it is explicitly allowed or at least does not harm anyone, or for the purpose of dealing damage to malicious projects (like pay-to-win servers). if anything, improve server-side anti-cheat measures and security (by means of improving the protocol and the verification of user inputs, not by ridiculous things like trying to verify that the client hasn't been modified), but censorship has never prevented unethical use of tools. It just makes them more inaccessible, thus creating an even larger power imbalance between cheaters and regular users.

@gamingonlinux @lutris no, because cheating in video games can be a legitimate way to play the game. free software means cheating resources should not be censored. it is the responsibility of the user to use those tools ethically, in contexts where it is explicitly allowed or at least does not harm anyone, or for the purpose of dealing damage to malicious projects (like pay-to-win servers). if anything, improve server-side anti-cheat measures and security (by means of improving the protocol and the...

Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@fleckenstein @lutris we’re talking about online games, it’s not ethical to cheat in them, it ruins it for everyone

lizzy :v_trans: :v_bi:

@gamingonlinux @lutris false. cheating in online games can be ethical depending on the context.

lizzy :v_trans: :v_bi:

@gamingonlinux @lutris how dare people have fun in the way they like in within their own, dedicated spaces

Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@fleckenstein @lutris 🤦‍♂️ not the type of game being talked about, read the room

lizzy :v_trans: :v_bi:

@gamingonlinux @lutris you never gave any more context than "online games" and "lutris game pages". online games can mean a lot of things and i don't agree that "cheating in online games" in general is unethical. You can't expect me to guess context that you don't provide. Would be nice if you did tell me what you're talking about.

Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@fleckenstein @lutris games with anti-cheat, clearly not any of the type of games you’re talking about

Destiny 2
Valorant
Fortnite

lizzy :v_trans: :v_bi:

@gamingonlinux @lutris I mean, games like Minetest, Minecraft, Veloren etc. have anticheat measures as well. I would know because I have literally worked on improving Minetest anticheat code as well as having made a cheat client for Minetest.

In general I'd agree that games that have centralized infrastructure and don't allow you to set up your own servers usually do not have opportunities for ethical cheating.

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