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404 Media
The Polish hackers who heroically fixed a series of NEWAG passenger trains that the manufacturer had artificially bricked with DRM are now being threatened with lawsuits from NEWAG. NEWAG has also filed a complaint with Polish authorities and has demanded the trains be removed from service. Hackers fixed the trains *with permission from the trains' owner* Repair expert told us this is "classic OEM bullshit," just on a train this time 47 comments
Rich Felker
@bangskij @404mediaco That sounds false and like the made-up legal theory the vendor believes will be true if they repeat it enough. You repeating it is simping for them. Even if you believe it has some force now, FFS stop repeating it.
Captain of the SS El Faro
@dalias @404mediaco it's really not my fault EU copyright law is a terminally broken shitshow, I literally campaigned against it and quit my union and royalty collection agency for supporting it because unlike them I saw this all too predictable outcome 
q3k :blobcatcoffee:
It's amazing how many bonkers legal takes we've heard about this over the past few weeks. :) We've been accused of everything from fraud, causing a danger to national security, insider trading, up to of course all possible violations of IP law. We've seen copyright law being applied to trains and intellectual property rights being interpreted as 'the author can do anything they want'. We've seen contract law translated to 'if it wasn't prohibited then it's okay'.
Peter
@q3k @dalias @bangskij @404mediaco I think everything about this story is fantastic. Well done q3k with your teams efforts and Iām still quite impressed that the story has gone public.
Captain of the SS El Faro
@scotclose @404mediaco this stuff already has names, it's called "felony contempt of business model", "enshittification", us consumers have been living with it for years in everything from printers to garage door openers, John Deere tractors. This is what "right to repair" bills are all about. Undoing this crap. It was only ever a matter of time before they put it in critical infrastructure. 
flere-imsaho
@bangskij would you kindly refrain from talking about something you have no idea? thanks in advance. @404mediaco 
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
@404mediaco it'll be very interesting if this gets escalated to the EC, as a challenge under EU Right to Repair. clause 18 of the directive makes it clear that third party repair is a matter of consumer choice and is encouraged, but I suspect that NEWAG will challenge the notion that the modifications made constitute a repair, for which there is less supporting precedent. not that I expect they'll have much luck.
Rich Felker
@gsuberland @404mediaco The original code was malware/fraud and should be treated as a criminal act by the manufacturer. Defusing that is absolutely "repair".
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
@dalias @404mediaco while I agree that perpetual-renting style purchase agreements and related mechanisms for obfuscating ownership and impeding right-to-modify ought to be banned, I strongly doubt that the legal apparatus would agree with a severe enough interpretation to classify it as a criminal act of fraud. but that's still fine, because even a far more moderate (and, let's be honest, realistic) legal interpretation would clear LSR, SPS, and Dragon Sector of any wrongdoing.
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
@dalias @404mediaco the real gem in all of this is the precedent it is likely to create. NEWAG may well have done everyone a favour here, given the EC's propensity toward take-no-bullshit stances on matters of consumer rights as of late.
Le Chep
@gsuberland @dalias @404mediaco small asterisk though: The customer is not a consumer, but a professional entity. May be afforded fewer rights... I still hope NEWAG gets seriously told to eff off by the courts in a way that future attempts can be pointed at
Leszek
@gsuberland @dalias @404mediaco Not exactly consumer law this time :(
Rich Felker
@gsuberland @404mediaco If the software is pretending to be broken because it inferred from GPS that it was taken to a repair shop, that's fraudulent. It's attempting to obtain something of commercial value based on deception.
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
@dalias @404mediaco on that point I agree, but I suspect that the EC will stop short of taking that legal stance if the case is brought to them. I've got no frame of reference for Poland's judiciary, though, so who knows what they'll do.
DELETED
@gsuberland @dalias @404mediaco fraud would have to be litigated in a railroad Vs NEWAG lawsuit, not this one, I think
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
@erincandescent @dalias @404mediaco fraud would be litigated in a criminal justice case, not a civil suit, but yes.
Emelia/Emi
@dalias @gsuberland The "fraud" part also comes from newag trying to blame the 3rd party repair shop's work for "why the train doesn't want to work". In other words, they're misrepresenting who broke the train in order to pressure the owner to have them repair it instead (and likely with inflated prices because "urgent" and "don't have to compete")
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
@becomethewaifu @dalias all of this is true, but is still a separate matter from whether or not the EC would make an executive ruling that this is a case of criminal fraud. the onus is largely on Poland's judiciary, on that front.
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
@becomethewaifu @dalias to be absolutely clear: my argument is that the question of whether or not it is criminal fraud is largely orthogonal to the EC's regulatory function in this matter and, as I understand it, also somewhat beyond their remit. nothing NEWAG did was excusable or right or justified, and that entire brand of anti-consumer fuckery needs to get right in the bin.
rigrig
@gsuberland @dalias I guess it depends on the contract/documentation. You can probably get away with parts pairing, but deliberately adding hidden code that disables a device solely based on GPS coordinates seems a lot like intentionally selling defective merchandise.
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial
LisPi
@gsuberland @404mediaco @dalias It artificially disabled trains for the sake of extracting maintenance money.
So if it is not fraud, it is instead infrastructure sabotage and extortion (with a side of racketeering). Sabotaging rail infrastructure for *any reason* in Poland is a crime.
elly
@gsuberland @404mediaco NEWAG on it's way to destroy their entire business, thinking they won't suffer repercussions if they take it to court::
Shouldn't have written shitty, sketchy DRM in the first place. Now they're going to suffer.
Mark Kahl š²š»š¦šŗš¦š®š±
@404mediaco Who would have guessed! 
Kye Fox
@404mediaco Does Poland have anything like eminent domain? It seems like taking the IP from them is clearly in the public's interest.
Juliet Merida (she/they) šš³ļøāā§ļøš¹šÆ
@404mediaco@mastodon.social Bullshit all the way down. 
Alveus Nosville
@404mediaco literally what in the goddamned fuck
Ben Bradley
@404mediaco Looks like a soon-to-be-classic "Copyright Law says we can do this" vs. "Right To Repair" case. It seems this NEWAG threatening "hackers" while asking The Government to protect its "right" to screw with train service (all "service" puns intended) is a bit risky, though it may be an opportunity for Government Officials to receive some Clarence Thomas-like off-the-record funding. I hope that sentence isn't too long.  
lyrokain :verified_breze:
@404mediaco In late state capitalism you can buy a train, but you can never own it. #technofeudalism
Gratian
@404mediaco āļø This should be a great delight to @pluralistic . Ucrainian tractors now come in the Form of polish Trains. Choo-Choo  
wuffel
@404mediaco |
Gregory's Server
@404mediaco except EU copyright law is very clear, they don't own the trains, they have merely paid for a limited license to use the trains under certain conditions the manufacturer can retroactively change at will.