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Zimmie

@thomasfuchs Gets even more interesting. In the terms of service, they say you must opt out by emailing arbitrationoptout@23andme.com, and if you don’t, you agree to arbitration. They could argue writing only to legal@ (which is the what the “notify us” link does) is not enough.

14 comments
Graham Sutherland / Polynomial

@thomasfuchs @bob_zim might wanna edit that detail into your post, so folks can see the discrepancy without clicking through to replies.

sollat

@thomasfuchs
You can always email them both. Heck, I'm tempted to go through the terms and email all the referenced addresses. But it's past my bedtime.

Peace Out Art :noverify:

@bob_zim @thomasfuchs
They can put anything they want in their contract or terms of service. That doesn’t automatically make it legal and binding.

Zimmie

@Peace_out_art @thomasfuchs Sure, but that’s a whole separate issue. I’m only pointing out the email’s description of how to opt out is inconsistent with the terms of service’s description of how to opt out. This could be accidental, or it could be deceptive.

It’s also possible they expect you to email arbitrationoptout@ just for arbitration and legal@ to opt out of any other updates to the ToS.

Adam Shostack :donor: :rebelverified:

@bob_zim @thomasfuchs That seems like the sort of deceptive trade practice that someone should mention to the FTC.

Zimmie

@adamshostack @thomasfuchs It’s entirely possible it was accidental. Maybe the person drafting the email didn’t know that the other person setting up the new ToS had set up a new email alias specifically for the arbitration opt-out.

If they try to argue later that writing to legal@ isn’t enough when the email said it was the way to notify them you opt out, *that* would cross the line into definite deception. Still, would be a long process to prove, especially with Republicans trying to gut the FTC. It’s easy enough today to send an email to both addresses and skip the challenge.

@adamshostack @thomasfuchs It’s entirely possible it was accidental. Maybe the person drafting the email didn’t know that the other person setting up the new ToS had set up a new email alias specifically for the arbitration opt-out.

If they try to argue later that writing to legal@ isn’t enough when the email said it was the way to notify them you opt out, *that* would cross the line into definite deception. Still, would be a long process to prove, especially with Republicans trying to gut the FTC....

LN

@bob_zim @thomasfuchs I'm always surprised by the customer hostility of US laws but that can't possibly be legal. Normally the process is that you have to accept new terms of service explicitly, not that you have to jump through hoops to keep the old ones.

Zimmie

@ln @thomasfuchs Changes to the terms of service are generally legal, though I don’t think anybody has taken a change this big to court to get a solid answer. Generally, courts would frown upon big changes which are totally one-sided, such as adding that you agree to waive your right to join any class action suits about past or future behavior. By saying you waive your right to join *any* legal suit against the company, but you can use individual arbitration instead, they get the same result while looking less one-sided.

@ln @thomasfuchs Changes to the terms of service are generally legal, though I don’t think anybody has taken a change this big to court to get a solid answer. Generally, courts would frown upon big changes which are totally one-sided, such as adding that you agree to waive your right to join any class action suits about past or future behavior. By saying you waive your right to join *any* legal suit against the company, but you can use individual arbitration instead, they get the same result while...

JusticeMoor

@bob_zim @thomasfuchs

You are really obnoxious. On Bluesky, you put me and many other people on your stupid lists. You need to grow up.

Zimmie

@JusticeMoor What are you talking about? I don’t use Bluesky and probably never will.

JusticeMoor

@bob_zim

Sorry. I ment to cuss out thomasfuchs. He has alot of people mad at Bluesky.

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