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Rick de Wolf

@johncarlosbaez I'm not too familiar with the way things work in academia, but how often do demotions happen generally?

10 comments
John Carlos Baez

@watchie - People can fail to get tenure, but I've never heard of them being "demoted" to adjuncts; I believe that would be against the rules at my university (the University of California). So I would like to understand in more detail what happened here.

Rick de Wolf

@johncarlosbaez Interesting, I figured it would be well known in academic circles. If you find anything I'd love to hear about it.

Seems like they were less than gracious to her, even if demotion is a common thing; but if it isn't that's even worse.

thepoliticalcat

@watchie @johncarlosbaez UPenn is not known for its excellent treatment of faculty, believe me.

TayFoNay ☕️ :bc:

@johncarlosbaez @watchie Here’s my story: hired after post-doc to assistant prof. My former university doesn’t give out many tenure track positions, at least in the medical school where I was appointed. When my daughter was born I took an unpaid leave but kept my appointment via contributed service (taught some classes). I also started my private practice (I’m a psychologist). Was asked to come back part time sooner than I’d planned by my old boss, but was told by an administrator I would have to take a demotion to a staff position (clinical research associate). I didn’t think I was going to go back to a full time research gig so I said whatever and took it. Learned later he really didn’t have to demote me, but acted like it was absolutely required. Turns out he used some vague bylaw or something. Anyway, I was then part of a large program project grant that got funded and so I got reappointed to assistant professor. I clawed my way to associate professor after 4 years. Then I realized I was underpaid by about 50K a year. Spent 18 months fighting for that to be adjusted before I resigned this last April from academia entirely. So yes, people absolutely get demoted. This was at a major private university near Chicago that recently had some real bad press about their football team.

@johncarlosbaez @watchie Here’s my story: hired after post-doc to assistant prof. My former university doesn’t give out many tenure track positions, at least in the medical school where I was appointed. When my daughter was born I took an unpaid leave but kept my appointment via contributed service (taught some classes). I also started my private practice (I’m a psychologist). Was asked to come back part time sooner than I’d planned by my old boss, but was told by an administrator I would have to...

Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret

@tayfonay @johncarlosbaez @watchie Glad to hear you stayed until you got restitution. Not in academia, but was union member in a hospital doing the work that should have had a salary bump (12.5%), and was promised the position once one opened up. Got passed over so I had to go to arbitration to get my back pay and once they paid me I left. Was the only for profit I had worked at, took three months before I’d even look for another job. Leaving with that arbitration vindication felt wonderful though.

TayFoNay ☕️ :bc:

@CivilityFan @johncarlosbaez @watchie Oh I never got the salary adjustment. They played “so what have you actually done?” games for a year with empty promises. So I resigned. Now I’m being asked for favors, including being an adjunct because of ongoing grants 😂 I told them no and I think they were a bit shocked. I’m glad you got what was right but yeah, this shit takes a toll on you.

Jeff Shaffer CBET, ret

@tayfonay @johncarlosbaez @watchie I had the benefit of good union representation. When I told my rep that I wasn’t getting promoted, he recommended to me that I stop doing supervisor work. The message reached me in an executive safety meeting, so I got up and excused myself. The hospital safety officer saw me laving and said they would miss me, I told her to get used to it. One of the most satisfying moments of my life.

acowley

@johncarlosbaez @watchie Why the focus on being “demoted”? If you support the notion of people being denied tenure as part of that career path, surely you can imagine a scenario where someone would want to stay at an institution for any number of reasons: stay near family, tuition benefit, etc. If tenure review decides that someone isn’t successful enough at publishing/raising money, is the university doing something wrong letting them stay on in another capacity?

acm

@johncarlosbaez have also never heard of it. I mean, sometimes very elderly tenured faculty get put into tiny offices or whatever to "encourage" them to retire, but demotion? I'd think it was very much against the rules. or even messing with somebody's research plan! maybe she had a weird niche appointment originally.

John Carlos Baez

@acm_redfox - it turns out that article was written by someone who doesn't quite know academia. I've now learned a few details and they seem a bit different: she was a research assistant professor paid for by soft money, apparently from other people's grants, and when her research seemed to not be going anywhere those people said she should work on something else or she'd have get a job as an adjunct. That's my impression, anyway.

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