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101 comments
ZombiePete πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

@davidaugust I immediately thought of Picard and the lights while under torture by the Cardassians...

MugsysRapSheet πŸ”©πŸ‘πŸ˜

@LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo @davidaugust
What annoys me is I never know if I need to select the SIDES of the sign too (including the itty-bitty corners that barely extend into the next square.)

David August

@MugsysRapSheet @LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo Yeah, it's very vague and amorphous how to parse through what is true vs what we need to do to get the computer to let us continue... not ideal.

M.S. Bellows, Jr.

@davidaugust @MugsysRapSheet @LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo Ditto with the shoulder of the person ON the motorcycle that protrudes into is own square.

David August

@msbellows @MugsysRapSheet @LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo Oh my gosh yes.

I feel like someone could do a philosophy dissertation on what the nature of one of these objects is, and we need to have a concrete, firm answer just to continue on a website.

Bob Calder

@msbellows @davidaugust @MugsysRapSheet @LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo
Archive.ph took me in circles until I realized something was wrong. >.<

Steffen Christensen

@MugsysRapSheet @LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo @davidaugust I once failed so hard that I had to switch to audio confirmation to log into Steam because I kept clicking all the cells with motorcycles, even though it was the mirror or whatever.

🍡 holly

@MugsysRapSheet @LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo @davidaugust I just click things randomly, it eventually lets you through 🀷🏻 Or I just nope out of the site if it’s not worth my time to sabotage it.

Wander Ξ˜Ξ” :verified_paw:

@MugsysRapSheet @LadyDragonfly @PeterAperlo @davidaugust same here. I've come to believe that it expects square or rectangle shaped selections.

David August

@PeterAperlo great episode. Perhaps we have robot captors in our real-life version.

Picard saying, β€œthere are… four lights!”
meka

@PeterAperlo @davidaugust Sisko, not Picard and yes, me too πŸ˜‚

Marshall Eubanks

@davidaugust Eventually, people will be paid to fill these things out based on their ability to prove they are actually human, which not every person will be able to do.

David August

@TMEubanks like some sort of super human, lateral thinking subset of people.

Marshall Eubanks

@davidaugust Maybe. Or maybe just people who are literal enough to interpret a request for a stop light as a request for an image of a stop light.
xkcd.com/2228/

Suran

@TMEubanks
Then again, inside the Captcha it will always be an image of a traffic light.
There will never BE a real traffic light in any of the squares.

#Magritte
@davidaugust

Ben Aveling

@davidaugust @TMEubanks ppl are already being paid to complete captures. If there’s a market…

Rusty Ring

@davidaugust

This is the precise theme of one of the most famous Zen koans. ("The Moon in a Bucket".)

Carl Muckenhoupt

@davidaugust When you think about it, though, captchas never show you actual things. It's always just a picture on a screen. We automatically understand that "select all squares with traffic lights" means to select all squares containing pictures of traffic lights. And there *is* a picture of a traffic light there, on the picture of the sign.

wendinaokland

@michaelgemar @davidaugust Depiction and trompe l’oie are not applicable!

David August

@wendinoakland @michaelgemar but now I have learned what tompe-l'Ε“il is...or have I merely been tricked into believing I now know something new...

wendinaokland

@davidaugust @michaelgemar Images which β€œfooled the eye” were foundational for the surrealists who wished to illustrate dreams or strange mental states. My favorite recent joke captcha is β€œFind the squares with pipes” picturing Rene Magritte’s β€œCici n’est pas un pipe” (This is not a pipe)

Painting of a smoker’s pipe, including the words, β€œCici n’est pas un pipe” (this is not a pipe) by Belgian painter RenΓ© Magritte
Second Chance Bikes

@davidaugust
did u need to select the entire sign, or just the painted picture?

cuan_knaggs

@davidaugust my new game with these is to see how much i can get wrong and still get through

David August

@mensrea oo, good game. The narrow captcha pass game. I like it.

Alexandre Cunha

@davidaugust I believe these captchas are created by humans

see shy jo

@davidaugust with luck you are teaching their driverless cars to idle in front of this sign forever.

πŸ‘»πŸ‘» Flippin' spook, Tucker!

@davidaugust On the plus side, when the Robot Uprising begins we now know we can stop their autonomous vehicles in their tracks by simply painting pretend traffic lights everywhere. The robots will patiently sit there for eternity waiting for the green to get brighter.

emurphy

@davidaugust I can't find it now, but I once saw a Treachery of Images parody with an Airpod.

Richard W. Woodley NO THREADS πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸŒΉπŸš΄β€β™‚οΈπŸ“· πŸ—ΊοΈ

@davidaugust
I love when they use blurry photos so a bot can't decipher then but then I gotta guess is there supposed to a car in the far background there or not.

Zac

@davidaugust I'm late with this reference but I'm sharing it anyway because I didn't see this version in the replies :P

DELETED

AI, AI, AI! πŸ˜‚ πŸ€¦πŸ»β€β™‚οΈ
@davidaugust

James@ncot.uk

@davidaugust These pictures are used for machine learning.

It amuses me this is helping to train the machines that pictures of traffic lights are traffic lights.

Somewhere some machine learning engineer is going "oooohhhh yeah pictures of the thing are not the thing... right..."

David August

@james And thus we encounter another context, instance and use case where human assumptions distort what we build in unexpected ways. It's good times.

Interesting to see how we ourselves get reflected back by the systems we build.

Tim Lavoie

@davidaugust Since their answer is essentially used to train machine learning somewhere else, I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to go along with what it "wants" in order to mess with them.

sowth :debian:

@davidaugust This thread gave me an idea: put a fake captcha with a countdown timer, and when it finishes, display a video of a smoldering car with the caption "you weren't fast enough."

David August

@sowth Like IRL jeopardy, as if our captchas are making decisions in real-time for the world on the road.

Maarten Pelgrim

@davidaugust both hilarious and depressing at the same time...

David August

@dillonniederhut Ooo, I like it. The never ending vortex of imitation and reality blurred forever. Thanks for sharing that.

kaboombox

@davidaugust
This is not a pipe (it’s an image of a pipe).

M.S. Bellows, Jr.

@davidaugust
Captchas: "Prove you're human by clicking on the traffic lights and motorcycles, because robots are incapable of identifying traffic lights and motorcycles."

Tech billionaires: "Look, we've invented self-driving cars and – trust us here – they're PERFECTLY SAFE!"

Mark T. Tomczak

@msbellows @davidaugust I'm really enjoying this post because this is literally my job these days :)

David August

@mark @msbellows πŸ˜† Yes, it is like a shell game, "we can totally do this thing! Btw, can you do this other thing that clearly only needs doing to help us do that first thing that obviously we cannot yet do?"

Mark T. Tomczak

@davidaugust Without going into too much detail because I'm guessing at the details of their system: it's feeding machine learning systems so it's not a binary thing where they can or can't do it.

They can do it really well right now. The CAPTCHA answers are labeling training data on potential corner cases to further improve accuracy, which goes to both how reliably they can do it all the time (meaning "on every camera frame") and how fast they can do it.

You're not wrong, though, that it may impact public perception of the technology, since most of the public understands nothing of machine learning.

@davidaugust Without going into too much detail because I'm guessing at the details of their system: it's feeding machine learning systems so it's not a binary thing where they can or can't do it.

They can do it really well right now. The CAPTCHA answers are labeling training data on potential corner cases to further improve accuracy, which goes to both how reliably they can do it all the time (meaning "on every camera frame") and how fast they can do it.

M.S. Bellows, Jr.

@mark @davidaugust Hopefully not as a Nigerian kid clicking boxes for $2/day.

David J. Atkinson #🟦

@davidaugust My car used to provoke me with statements like, β€œThe door is a jar”. Sadly, it was unresponsive to my counter-arguments.

Chris Young

@davidaugust I'm sure I once saw one which asked for bicycles, and the picture was a bicycle painted on the road - which looked nothing like a real bicycle would.

I do wonder whether I imagined this as I didn't take a screenshot.

get back up

@davidaugust
So we know these captchas are training data for self driving cars but is that data itself being selected by a person?

Growlph Ibex

@davidaugust @gus_shepherd@furry.engineer...did it want all squares with the sign in it, or only the squares with the iconography?

I'm not even sure which of those would be more ontologically correct...

extraneous

@davidaugust
Oh god those evil things, road paraphernalia that looks nothing whatsoever like the stuff we have here, squinting closely often doesn't really help, they make me go through 5 or so screens of alien traffic lights hanging unexpectedly from the sky, trying to figure out what a fire hydrant looks like and is that thing defined as a bus or a van etc. I can't read those weird squirly words either or make out what the audio version is. Often I just decide I didn't need that website after all...
@Rosencrantz

@davidaugust
Oh god those evil things, road paraphernalia that looks nothing whatsoever like the stuff we have here, squinting closely often doesn't really help, they make me go through 5 or so screens of alien traffic lights hanging unexpectedly from the sky, trying to figure out what a fire hydrant looks like and is that thing defined as a bus or a van etc. I can't read those weird squirly words either or make out what the audio version is. Often I just decide I didn't need that website after all...

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