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Distopico

@HistoPol
@smallcircles
No sure about #Threema but #Signal is a centralized service that use Google Api and doesn't allow redistribute/publish is free service such as #FDroid, what about #XMPP or #Matrix ?

16 comments
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@distopico @HistoPol @smallcircles
#Threema has an f-droid repo:
threema.ch/en/faq/libre_instal
Actually one of the few projects taking advantage of the fact that f-droid is built to be #decentralised

Distopico

@kino @HistoPol @smallcircles reading about Threema is similar to signal in terms like the server is close source and not #decentrilized / #federated like #XMPP or #Matrix

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@distopico @HistoPol @smallcircles
Yeah, Threema's business model is to provide the network (and the server code) as a paid service. So given that, It is not clear under what kind of open source license they could publish the server code. Once their network was big enough, supposedly they could say, yeah.. here's the code, go ahead and try to compete with us. But some of their bigger business clients might choose to run their own server.

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@distopico @HistoPol @smallcircles
At this point I'm not taking the open source == good (just coz) argument at face value anymore. The future of Matrix always seems somehow, em.. unconfirmed? An interesting project. I wonder where it will go. There's been a LOT of VC funding up to now, one might assume some return is expected at some point. Maybe not though. I've run jabber servers in the past, I still have one, but federated XMPP just somehow can't seem to take hold outside of its own niche.

Distopico

@kino @HistoPol @smallcircles well close source/private != Privacy, you cannot own your data in your own server, you can't audity the code so you don't know what they do with your data

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@distopico @HistoPol @smallcircles In general I find that false dichotomies don't help here. "Audited" code is overrated. (History has already absolved me) It may even lure into the false sense of security trap.
But yes, 95% or so of the time, if it is a question of data integrity/security, and you have the time and skill to do analysis, you're probably better of with FOSS. You might also choose to trust other people, which is what a code audit is, no?

Distopico

@kino @HistoPol @smallcircles so instead trust many tech people that audity the code we should trust what one company behind those server said?, With XMPP you can choose several server some of those behind social activist such as disroot or use your own server

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@distopico @HistoPol @smallcircles
Rather than trying to lock down options, everybody has to find what "works" for them. There are no absolute correct choices here. For some, a good option may be no tech IM style comms at all. For others, maybe getting a genuine personal recommendation of trustworthyness from someone you trust might be worth more than "some hacker bros said it was all good." Not saying this is or is not the case with Threema. :-)

HistoPol (#HP)

@kino

(1/2)

Thank you for your well-thought comment based on your wast experience.

I tend to disagree with your overall conclusion, though:

"There are no absolute correct choices here." Maybe. But we presently have "one size fits all", at least in the West, and that is #WhatsApp.
In the face of the rise of fascism and the surveillance state a maximum number of people must move to...

@distopico @smallcircles

HistoPol (#HP) replied to HistoPol

@kino @distopico @smallcircles

(2/3)

...alternative messengers. The cannot indict everyone. This will protect the minorities (persecuted by the NS,) that direly need this protection.

I can see that many people might yet opt for even more security. But in this case, maybe even 3rd best would be way better than sticking with data kraken #Meta.

For instance, #Mastodon is definitely not the best solution for everyone. But yet, it has...

HistoPol (#HP) replied to HistoPol

@kino @distopico @smallcircles

(3/4)

...become the biggest non-corporate competitor.

I think the challange is finding the smallest common denominator and then promoting that (except for specialits lice infosec, who can easily manage 2 or more messengers.)

This is not about convenience anymore. This is information warfare preparation. Looking at what happened in the countries of the former Arab Spring or Iran and in particular to Russia and...

HistoPol (#HP) replied to HistoPol

@kino @distopico @smallcircles

(4/5)

...foremost China gives a pretty clear picture how this might turn really ugly.

The foremost global market square of ideas, #Twitter, is already lost. It had played a vital role in the Arab Spring.

For instance, #Telegram might be #freemium software, distributed and all, but its operational servers are in the #UAE, an autocratic state, where you'd better not...

HistoPol (#HP) replied to HistoPol

@kino @distopico @smallcircles

(5/5)

... be involved in serious car accient with a local as a foreigner.

In short, I think the choices would be very limited, if the criteria I mentioned earlier were applied.

//

Distopico replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @kino @smallcircles is not limited, is just the basic requirement, you don't have privacy if you don't have transparency and you can't have transparency with close/privative software

So for a WhatsApp replacement the base requirements should be

- Free software client/server
- Federated/decentralized
- Allow self hosting, so if you don't like X location of the server you can use you own server in the location of your preference
- Support e2e encryption, ideally by default and required

Distopico replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @kino @smallcircles that is one of my points, why if we have XMPP and Matrix we want to promote more options? That makes pretty hard to the end user choice one of those, XMPP, Matrix, SimpleXChat, Jam,DeltaXChat and Signal,Threema these last two with close/restrictive parts, I prefer promote the others that respect the user freedom and privacy and have similar features privacy/e2e encryption video/calls + federation/decentralized, transparency etc

CC

@distopico @HistoPol @smallcircles
Also, in my contacts there are precisely 2 people who use threema, and maybe 3 who are regularly connected to XMPP, with a few more not so regularly connected. I and others have been playing this find the best network game for literally decades, I think I started with ICQ, but I guess I was also using IRC that time. The latest being Wire and Matrix. I'm bored telling people to move to the latest cool IM space.

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