"In a quality city, a person should be able to live their entire life without a car, and not feel deprived."
"In a quality city, a person should be able to live their entire life without a car, and not feel deprived." 80 comments
As Bedford points out, the opposite is also true: (Elevated time car-commuting time also turns out to be a reliable metric of social isolation and general life dissatisfaction.) @straphanger I can attest that this is true for me since my mobility is mainly walking or biking. But almost all of the people around me seem fine with the auto thing. When I do drive, however, I am more sensitive to how horrible it is, even without congestion. With Internet, society should be able to deprecate the "city". We don't all need to be stacked on top of each other, in homes, in cars, in subways and so on. Doubt I will see it in my life time... @niclas @straphanger To the extent that there are people who currently live in a city that don't really want to be there, sure. I think you might be underestimating how many people *want* to live somewhere vibrant and exciting with an abundance of choice of 3rd places to spend their time though.
C’est un peu la sensation que j’ai eu à Bonn (Deutchland) : tout était desservi, je n’ai jamais eu l’impression d’être privée de quoi que ce soit. I have an 80 year old friend who until the last 2-3 years rode everywhere by bike for about 35 years. Now he can't do it. His roommate is in his 70s and has been biking everywhere, including across country, for at least that long. And this is in America. What you can't do in America is avoid cars. @Mindiell@mamot.fr @straphanger@urbanists.social I don't know how those trains are but maybe it's a separate door or cart ? Since on those doors in the image it shows only the bicycle icon There is likely another door (or doors) that's accessible for mobility devices. A person using a wheelchair wouldn't want to be stuck behind a dozen bikes. Transit designers with the foresight to accommodate bikes and buggies will already have figured out chairs. @bobjonkman @straphanger too much answers ! Thank you everyone for your examples, links, pictures, and other resources <3 @Mindiell @straphanger there is a ramp that can be folded out from a compartment next to the door. But the wheelchair user needs to contact personnel on the train. @Mindiell @straphanger https://www.visitcopenhagen.com/copenhagen/planning/accessible-transportation although I'd love to see photos/videos. @straphanger but, but, but, but then people would have more money or time, go into debt less and be healthier! @Aleggra So many people rave over a restaurant on the basis of HUGE portions, not the quality or selection of foods! Exactly. Using food as an example, the French serve tiny portions that are deliciously high quality. Maybe that’s why obesity is almost non-existent despite their luscious pastries. Maybe it’s the combination of all the walking they do in Paris. Thing is I don’t remember seeing any overweight Parisians. Quantity over quality reminds me of a commercial here for some awful looking burger piled high w/some fried curly things inside. Looked absolutely disgusting. @straphanger 💯 @straphanger But, but, but, if we can't debt-saddle people with car payments, how can we control them? @straphanger that looks awesome. I have never seen anything like that. Our busses are where you go to get robbed, stabbed, stalked or murdered. Super safe. @straphanger But people who live in the city are disadvantaged by nature, that's a natural law? Obviously it's less invasis when several people share a car to get into nature, compared to bunch of people within a steel monster. I assume everyone wants to get out of the city often, which results in trains going directly into nature, when driving cars is not an option. Or do you speak of people who are happy when they are only in cities? Is it possible? @Sprbr Yes, the whole predicate of "people who live in cities" is inherently a disadvantage. The idea of "get into nature" is problematic. People need access to real nature for mental health. If you can point at which council official planted the tree, it's not the real deal. I, for one, am happy with my car and haven't sat in a traffic jam for years. And I'll be even happier when the next one is electric and the government continues to invest in the roads. @Sprbr ooh, there's actually a new book summarizing the science about this called Traffication. https://pelagicpublishing.com/products/traffication @straphanger i'll take a guess and say this is NOT a quote from Robert Moses. https://untappedcities.com/2013/12/18/5-things-in-nyc-we-can-blame-on-robert-moses/ @straphanger I first read "without a cat" and I was like "WTF WAT IS THIS NONSENSE" but yeah without a car it makes more sense @straphanger@urbanists.social I'd be lucky if even a bus ran in a twenty minute walk from here. The closest passenger rail is about 30 minutes by car and it's Amtrak. @straphanger When I lived in Tokyo in the 90s I was absolutely grateful I didn’t need a car. Moving back to the US, to SF Bay Area, and suddenly needing a car was a real shock. Still walked and biked everywhere I could, but then my bicycle got stolen one evening while I was enjoying some live music in Palo Alto. This after Japan where a very simple lock that sticks through the spokes on the front wheel is all that we ever used. Sigh @straphanger oh hey a DSB train they’re nice when they arrive on time and don’t stop in the middle of nowhere due to a leaf falling on the tracks and such @straphanger I love this, and wish big American cities did this instead of forcing people to clog the air with exhaust fumes from cars. @straphanger @Grandalf I’m doing this here in Paris. I don’t even have a driving license. And I know a number of other people like me. There's a ramp in every one of these trains, standardised at the front. According to my wheelchair bound coworker who uses it a couple of week it works great. @straphanger I really this quote: a developed country is not where poor people own cars, it’s where rich people use public transportation. @straphanger In europe in big citys this is reality I wonder when you fucked up since it was US cities first with their subways and trams. And for the national trainsystem you could just use busses instead but thats just my 2 cents @straphanger Picture from Copenhagen Central Station. It’s about human scale - when traffic in a city is based on cars, we lose the human scale. Copenhagen has a mix of traffic, and more and more cars for even local traffic now 🤷♀️ @straphanger Mijn hele leven geen rijbewijs gehad. Was altijd goed te doen. Zeker in Amsterdam. Maar tegenwoordig is het OV wel erg verschraald. Mijn enige overgebleven tante woont net buiten een klein plaatsje in Brabant. Absoluut onbereikbaar met het OV. Na Tilburg CS houdt het op. Geen bus, geen buurtbus. Niets. Ook hier in de NoordKop zijn kleine plaatsen niet meer bereikbaar. En uitgerekend daar zetten de overheid destijds de Covid-19 vaccinatie centra neer. #hoedan @straphanger @ishmael FWIW, Tokyo scores highly on this. I haven't had a car in all the time I've been here. I initially had an international license and meant to get it converted but missed the deadline, so I don't have one even now but many years have passed and it's been no problem. With covid I'd rather not rely on shared public transport but taxis exist. If I had a license and wanted to drive outside the city, a lot of stations have car rental outlets nearby (and there's good trains, too). @straphanger I'm 61, never owned a car, and never missed it for one second. Cities: London, Vienna, Montreal, Ottawa, NYC, Amsterdam. I crashed my car 2 years ago and sold what's left. Never bought a new one as turned out that I need car for 2-3 weeks per year (vacations and Xmas). Rental car costs less than I had to pay per year for my own one. Shopping places are in 15 minutes walk distance, 5 minutes to public bus stop which I can use to travel around the city. In case I would need to transport something bigger there are friends with cars or carsharing. @straphanger I desperately wish this was true for the UK. I live in the middle of nowhere and depend on volunteer drivers if I have to go to the nearest hospital (20+ miles away) @ninokadic @straphanger I've only visited but I think Paris, Montreal have decent public transport too. Prague is a bit less frequent and well connected. In the US I've only been to Portland and they had trams every 15 minutes only I think which is a bit of a shit show. I mean basically if you need to plan around the transport rather than the transport being frequently enough for you to just show up that's a problem, so you want connections every 5 minutes really, maybe 10. @ninokadic @straphanger My small town here in Germany has pretty annoying public transport but it's mostly because walking would take the same time. So Bus to train station takes 10 minutes, but then you gotta walk 5 mins to the bus station and want to calculate in 15 mins of buffer time, so you end up same speed as walking for 30 minutes. Bike is faster. Car? Forget about it, car traffic is a horrible mess in such a historic town. @juliank @straphanger Sounds very much like Zagreb, except that everyone wants a car (even though you can barely park in the city centre anymore). @straphanger I wish I could get a bike on public transport so much. I think about this a lot. @straphanger If only. Unfortunately, in a rural environment,where there are little (if any) local facilities, where bus services are, at best, "infrequent", and usually stop long before the evening, a car is the only practical way to get anywhere. @straphanger i live car free in amsterdam, and i don't feel deprieved, i don't have children, but i'm pretty sure i could manage with a bakenfiets (cargo bike with a large trunk in the front) if i had, I was also living car free in Paris before, but it was a bit more constraining, i think it's better now. @straphanger if you would a so called quality city, plan it from Zero...the others are all compromises, like there are not only young or elderly people.... @straphanger @lorne City of Montreal is opening up the new light rail today. This post my me wonder about bikes on the light rail. I’ve not heard a peep in the news about bike access. @straphanger True, and we're lucky enough to live in a city with great public transportation. Haven't owned a car in years. What a huge savings it is! However, as soon as you go to a smaller city by train, it's less easy to get around without a car. For those who work in town and live out (or the opposite) it's auto hell 5 or 6 days a week. @straphanger we have lived in #Helsinki for 10 years with no car and never missed it. Public transport, city bikes and walking are our means of transport. @straphanger Even in densely populated countries like the UK many of us don't live in cities and even many who technically do are in fact in boroughs on the edge that are actually rural. We need subsidised public transport but we also need more local amenities. At the moment it is assumed that people from small towns and villages will use cars to go shopping or for leisure and social trips. Local shops, libraries, sports facilities are often poor quality or nonexistent. @straphanger I am 100% in favour of good public transport and where I live now is excellent compared to where I used to live but many people drive cars for safety reasons and you won't get them to give it up for public transport. If you are a lone female for example working shifts like a Nurse, imagine having to travel late at night on unsafe public transport while in fear of attack.🤔 @straphanger Perhaps a bit controversial, but I also think that a person who only drives should feel deprived. I want more spaces in cities that are as inaccessible to cars as possible. @straphanger Most (might be all now) old stations have been refurbished so that the train doors are level with the stations ground. Avoiding any need for lifts or elevators for accessibility. @straphanger if only more cities and towns worked that way instead of kneeling to the auto industry |
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