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Charles Roper

@kissane

Reading through now.

In case I forget (I always forget):

"building cultural norms into the tooling is much more effective and less alienating than chiding"

One of the best encapsulations of this idea, born of the challenges of managing the StackOverflow community norms (which tend towards scolding like lava) and Discourse (which aims to be the opposite), is Jeff Atwood's "Just In Time" Theory of User Behaviour:

blog.codinghorror.com/the-just

I return to this a lot - it's useful.

17 comments
Charles Roper

@kissane

Re. the second "couldn’t find people or interests" group, I viscerally feel this.

I set up an alt-account to indulge in therapeutic socialising around the (big) football (soccer) team I follow.

The experience has been excruciatingly difficult in many ways. It's been a job. I'm two week into relentless *work* to drum up even a little consistent sociability. It's been almost zero fun. If I were normal, I'd have given up on day two.

Two idea I think would make it easier (cont)...

Charles Roper

@kissane

1. Hashtags are indeed essential in the absence of an algorithm. But people either forget to use them, or just don't because they've been conditioned not to. It would help enormously to have a mechanism by which we could auto-tag posts; i.e. insert one of more tags quickly based on what I'm posting about. In addition, it would help if tags copied into replies, like handles do.

(cont)...

Charles Roper

@kissane

2. I'd like to be able to search a hashtag and get back a list of accounts that have used that hashtag within x days or have that tag in their profile. Ordered by "frecency". I'd then like to drill in to see their tagged posts.

Perhaps the biggest difficulty I've found on my alt-account is that even though I've been through the pain of finding and following around 200 people who have used a relevant tag, my timeline is frustratingly irrelevant to the point of being chaotic. (cont)...

Charles Roper

@kissane

So I have to resort to clicking about to manually search for my hashtags. Which yields better results. But then I'm missing the stuff people don't tag (which is a lot).

So yeah, it's very difficult.

I'd also say it's all very time bound. Posting stuff while America sleeps means you're posting into the void, because those posts aren't surfaced by an algo in the morning. A tactic I've often used there is to boost my own posts to give them a second wind.

Brett Coulstock

@charlesroper @kissane The world is a big place, and not a "void". If the US is important to you, certainly, time your posts, but there are other timezones with interesting people in them.

MWT

@charlesroper @kissane
I don't bother with following people at all. If I'm interested in a topic, I follow the hashtags about that topic, and it doesn't matter to me who's posting to it. If I'm interested in everything a particular person has to say on any topic (aka actual friends), then I follow them.

naught101

@charlesroper @kissane also an "explore"-like function that let's you see recent popular posts limited to specific hashtags, or any of the hashtags you follow.

♾️ Yuki (스노 雪亮) 🐬 🔥🎏

@naught101@mastodon.social @charlesroper@indieweb.social @kissane@mas.to #Firefish (f. #Calckey), #Misskey, have that, it's called antenna(s).

You are not restricted to hashtags, because it uses keywords.

For example, I have an antenna on my Firefish account for gaming. My keywords are: games, gaming, steam, gog.com.

I can see posts from people I don't follow as long as the instance have seen it.

cstephens2

@charlesroper @kissane My problem has been figuring out what hashtag to use because not everyone agrees. And I feel like the suggested hashtags aren't very usable until you're almost done typing the whole word. Without including the actual "#" , is it SuperBowl2024 or SuperBowlLVIII? SuperBowlAds or SuperBowlCommercials? Oscars or AcademyAwards? TheMandalorian or Mandalorian? Sometimes, my posts end up a parade of hashtags to cover alternate versions, and that's no fun and takes space.

kinyutaka

@cstephens2 @charlesroper @kissane

To be fair, that's a problem with all Social Media. The most unified hashtags are the ones promoted by the companies involved.

Like Disney might post about #MandalorianSeason3 while you might have posted about #TheMandalorianS3

Disney's will be more popular, most likely.

cstephens2

@kinyutaka @charlesroper @kissane

Of the social media I use, I've found Instagram to be the easiest because they tell me what I've used before and also come up with the most popular ones as suggestions, so I can choose. That almost never worked for me on Twitter. And it's not working for me on here, even hashtags I've used.

kinyutaka replied to cstephens2

@cstephens2 @charlesroper @kissane

I have had mixed reactions on my hashtags. System will sometimes capitalize them, and sometimes not. Sometimes they don't fill in when I start typing.

MWT

@cstephens2 @charlesroper @kissane

It's possible to figure out which ones to use if you go to the Explore section and then put various hashtags into the search to find out which version is the most popular. Sometimes I do that after I've posted something, and then I edit them in.

Not a perfect solution by any means, it definitely should be streamlined into the actual posting interface.

DELETED

@charlesroper @kissane Interesting post, but it relies heavily on a book by Dan Ariely. And Ariely's research has recently been found to be...unreliable to say the least.

Charles Roper

@BXQ @kissane I wouldn't go so far as to say heavily relies on. It's an adjacent idea. An example of what he's talking about. You could remove the Ariely references if you wanted and his point about the UX of minimum helpful reminders at exactly the right time still holds.

Kay Ohtie, Bat-Yote!

@charlesroper @kissane @bersl2 So much of this I vibe with. I feel like my largest frustration running Mastodon for my users is that good options are not straightforward. (And apologies in advance for rambling)

I joke sometimes "if Mastodon is so good, how come there's not Pterodactyl" as a goofy Power Rangers joke, but the reality is, the current helm of that project is too boxed-in. I feel like Gagron's succumbed to "works on my box" syndrome. "Works fine for me!" "Works fine for my users!". That's lovely. But it's not broadly-applicable.

Glitch-soc is kind of a start, but it wouldn't surprise me if, within the next few months, a serious fork of Mastodon itself starts to emerge because it _is_ implementing all these things that users and admins are begging for, not just 'cool' things, but functional UX!

I want alt text to be something highlighted to folks when they add media, draw attention to adding it (no, Gagron, the current is NOT attention). I want the CW box to be always avail as a subject/summary box, suggestion text that draws attention to using it, and is ignored when not needed (and, properly, marks it either way based on anything typed there). I want my instance to fetch posts from a remote instance when someone clicks into a detail view so they get a broader conversation (maybe, there's something to be said for this not being the case too), to fetch media and posts PROPERLY when someone clicks to view a profile. A phone client shouldn't have to implement doing this to supplant the crappy native behavior.

And that's only scratching the surface on things that aren't 'cool', but 'needed', things that make the user experience better. And I feel like no one on the Masto team at least has any idea what the hell UX actually means.

@charlesroper @kissane @bersl2 So much of this I vibe with. I feel like my largest frustration running Mastodon for my users is that good options are not straightforward. (And apologies in advance for rambling)

I joke sometimes "if Mastodon is so good, how come there's not Pterodactyl" as a goofy Power Rangers joke, but the reality is, the current helm of that project is too boxed-in. I feel like Gagron's succumbed to "works on my box" syndrome. "Works fine for me!" "Works fine for my users!". That's...

Dave Howcroft 🦔

@KayOhtie
I think these message loading ideas are good but tricky. Currently everything you view goes through your instance rather than your device, so it doesn't leak your location or IP address to a server you don't belong to. If the instance fetches the profile or some replies, it has to complete that process AND serve it to the user, which might be laggy and frustrating. Alternatively, users' devices could do the fetching for faster load times, but that would sacrifice privacy.

I can't speak to the other UX things you raised, but my understanding is that there are good reasons for some of the necessary features we want to be slow in development, given the tradeoffs involved.
@charlesroper @kissane @bersl2

@KayOhtie
I think these message loading ideas are good but tricky. Currently everything you view goes through your instance rather than your device, so it doesn't leak your location or IP address to a server you don't belong to. If the instance fetches the profile or some replies, it has to complete that process AND serve it to the user, which might be laggy and frustrating. Alternatively, users' devices could do the fetching for faster load times, but that would sacrifice privacy.

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