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Stroad Warrior

@haskal @cwebber Yeah, it's so annoying that for the C ABI to be the standard, it's necessary for other languages to *actually support the standard *. We should only ever adopt standards that are already supported.

13 Jul 2023 at 17:01 | Wall-to-wall | Open on hachyderm.io
6 comments
Christine Lemmer-Webber

@cholling @haskal I do think it's annoying that C has become the lingua franca. Rust could provide an alternative, that would be a good initiative on its part. It would still require dynamic linking. Support for the C ABI isn't the primary thing I'm advocating for, it's pointing out that dynamic linking is where C has had the most success.

13 Jul 2023 at 17:06 | Open on octodon.social
witch hat hacker 🎃 types ver

@cwebber i don't think i understand your point. currently it's straightforward, using standard tooling, to make a rust dynamic linked shared library and export C headers for it. a lot of mozilla projects are doing this

13 Jul 2023 at 17:09 | Open on types.pl
Christine Lemmer-Webber

@haskal yes, you can do it. but you aren't having conversations with the same people in the Rust community as I have, clearly.

(Notably all the annoying Rust developers are cis dudes, and most of the cool ones are trans girls, who don't typically share this same attitude. Despite the fediverse's reality distortion field, that's not the majority of Rust devs in the wild)

13 Jul 2023 at 17:12 | Open on octodon.social
witch hat hacker 🎃 types ver

@cwebber i mean i could write an imagemagick in rust today and export even fully imagemagick-compatible C bindings and have a drop in replacement shared library
i guess i still don't understand the use case you're criticizing here

13 Jul 2023 at 17:16 | Open on types.pl
Christine Lemmer-Webber

@haskal okay I will be very specific about the criticism: it's a criticism of a *cultural* attitude that is anti dynamic linking that I have encountered in Rust. That's not a *tooling* or *technical* criticism. But it is pointing out that this *cultural attitude*, among many but not not all participants (but enough of them), is actually detremental to the goals of being a systems language that upends the problems with C. The counterpoint then is that the Rust community is *encouraged* to *embrace* dynamic linking; this could even be trying to push forward an alternative to the "C ABI" (which doesn't really exist), which I think would be a positive action!

@haskal okay I will be very specific about the criticism: it's a criticism of a *cultural* attitude that is anti dynamic linking that I have encountered in Rust. That's not a *tooling* or *technical* criticism. But it is pointing out that this *cultural attitude*, among many but not not all participants (but enough of them), is actually detremental to the goals of being a systems language that upends the problems with C. The counterpoint then is that the Rust community is *encouraged* to *embrace*...

13 Jul 2023 at 17:20 | Open on octodon.social
lonjil

@cwebber @haskal many many Rust libraries have C bindings and no one minds, so I reckon you've had the misfortune of bumping into a shitty minority.

13 Jul 2023 at 18:15 | Open on social.treehouse.systems
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