@miki 1.2.3.4 is a valid IPv4 address, just like, say, 1.1.1.1, and you should stop making excuses 🙂
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@miki 1.2.3.4 is a valid IPv4 address, just like, say, 1.1.1.1, and you should stop making excuses 🙂 19 comments
@miki Thousands of people over the decades who, like you, didn't think it would cause a problem, leaving others to clean up their messes down the road. Like, entire chunks of the IPv4 address space that are unavailable because of assumptions made in the past. Just change the habit, man 😄 @sindarina @miki Please don't disregard reasons as excuses. The reasons were given and the RFC does *not* address these points, unfortunately. tl;dr: Example addresses that don't like example addresses despite being standardized in RFCs aren't *that* helpful to those who don't actually know that RFC. @ljrk @miki Which is why posts like these are made, complete with links to the relevant sources. Habit is no excuse, and neither is ignorance. If you are concerned that people may not realise it is provided as an example, you should document this, within the context you are using it, because that part of your argument applies regardless of which address you use as an example. @sindarina @ljrk This is sometimes not possible, for example in config files that have to be written in pure JSON (and hence don’t support comments). Sure, there’s always a manual, but having to read that is nowhere near good UX design principles. @sindarina @miki The discussion was not about habit, zero points there. And it's not about ignorance of the designer but the user, and assuming users know every RFC is a bullshit assumption. But I have enough about getting told I'm ignorant or just doing things out of habit. If you want to just attack people disagreeing instead of actually trying to understand their points fine, but not with me. What load of toxic bs. @ljrk @sindarina @miki If someone is required to provide a valid IP address, then why not put an IP address from said documentation ranges there and throw an error of some sorts if one of those addresses was used? That way you won't run into someone who actually does have access to 1.2.3.4 who cannot use your app or service because of Assumption™ because those addresses are guaranteed to not be in use. Also throwing an error is the right thing to do when someone is required to change something but hasn't IMHO. @benaryorg @sindarina @miki Because not always you have actual default values but examples in docs. @ljrk @sindarina @miki In documentation of all places you do have the ability to actually write that this value needs to be changed though. "Important: insert the IP address of [whatever] here" @benaryorg @sindarina @miki Yep, and observe how people ignore it. Anyone who believes that documentation is actually read is naïve. Everything that can be "self-documenting", i.e., *self explanatory* and obvious should be made/written like that. Any "surrounding" documentation is less likely to be read. @benaryorg That's why I wouldn't put 1.2.3.4 in docs/example configs for... idk, a BGP router or something lol. As I said, it really comes down to the target group, and if I get more confusing/questions about 192.0.2.0/24 and it holds up students or confuses them, I tend to use 1.2.3.4 (it's mostly oral lectures, although I hate giving lectures). @ljrk @sindarina @miki 2.2.2.2 and 8.8.8.8 both looks like an dummy IP (users could think it's not a real IP) but they are real, functional IPs you should not use as examples (unless DNS stuff with Google). RFCs being unknown to some users is a very good reason to use them, the more there are documents using theses "documentation" IPs, the more people will recognize them easily. |
@sindarina And so what? If using a valid address isn’t a security concern in a given context, where’s the problem exactly?