Gregory's Server@anders_von_hadern @vagina_museum The concept is often rooted in the idea that one’s gender is defined in relation to the object of one’s desire, so it can sometimes give the appearance of erasing the category of “lesbian” in that it classifies lesbians as “not-women” and therefore negates the concept of “woman-loving-woman”. But there have been a number of variants on the idea of “lesbians (or homosexuals in general) as third sex” across the ages, with different nuances. 2/2
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@anders_von_hadern The thing about this sort of symbolic characterization of sexuality or gender is that it can be extremely individual, and the "spin" can vary wildly depending on whether it's a self-characterization or an external characterization. My research primarily covers the pre-20th century, so it's incredibly rare (though not unheard-of) to find candid self-characterizations of lesbian sexuality. It's 95% external framings, and 5% how people defend themselves to the world. @anders_von_hadern So while I have a variety of examples of people framing homoerotic desire as stemming from a "third sex" identity, it's vary rare for the sources I"m working with to be written by someone experiencing that desire and representing their own understanding, It's a very different matter than having contemporary people explore how to describe their own identities, and even when the symbolism is similar, it can have different cultural meanings. @heatherrosejones @anders_von_hadern @vagina_museum That's interesting. If you have the time and willingness I'd like to know what they'd think of asexuality. If your gender is linked to your sexual desire, then would a lack of one be interpreted as a lack in the other? @dragonsarecool @anders_von_hadern @vagina_museum Since that isn't the focus of my research activities (despite being asexual myself) any information I'd have on it would be much spottier. Researching pre-modern attitudes toward and understandings of asexuality are complicated (in Western culture and some other cultures) by a confusion with philosophical celebacy, or by a generally sex-negative culture. It can be hard to tease out the threads. |
@heatherrosejones @vagina_museum I know about lesbians not being women in the context of Monique Wittig, but vaguely only.
What I like about it is the context of lesbians not being heterosexual women (not to be had by men) and not being men (as in: lesbians are not behaving as predatory towards women as men do as some cliché tells).
Plus for my personal experience loving another not-woman lesbian is a completely different love on a mental and biological base than as a woman loving a woman. Which is why I definitely define as third sex lesbian.
Whereas woman loving women for me is not a gender/sex-question but a definition of sexual preference.
Does that make any sense? I am pretty sure I am not alone in this and there were several lesbians before me ;-)
@heatherrosejones @vagina_museum I know about lesbians not being women in the context of Monique Wittig, but vaguely only.
What I like about it is the context of lesbians not being heterosexual women (not to be had by men) and not being men (as in: lesbians are not behaving as predatory towards women as men do as some cliché tells).