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Andrew Tropin

I'm really happy that #clojure has immutable data structures out of the box.

I wish we can have the same in #scheme one day or maybe in some scheme dialect at least, which is easy to use along with the rest of the ecosystem.

12 comments
The ol' tealeg

@abcdw I wonder if Owl is in the direction you mean? I've not yet played with it myself.

Andrew Tropin

@tealeg Right now I'm thinking about something like lokke, because programming guix/rde stuff with set! hash-set! vector-set! is neither functional nor fun.

In some distant future I look towards distributed content-addressable immutable storage and programming environment on top of it.

Pavel Korytov :emacs:

@abcdw Wasn't that originally a consequence of implementing a Lisp in the JVM rather than proper language design? 🤔

Andrew Tropin

@sqrtminusone You can have and actually have mutable data structures in Java and most of other JVM langs.

Immutable data structures is a part of the language design. Actually, hosting it on JVM is also a part of the design.

lampwww.epfl.ch/papers/idealha
hypirion.com/musings/understan

And there is a good reasoning/rationale behind it:
youtube.com/watch?v=-6BsiVyC1k

@sqrtminusone You can have and actually have mutable data structures in Java and most of other JVM langs.

Immutable data structures is a part of the language design. Actually, hosting it on JVM is also a part of the design.

lampwww.epfl.ch/papers/idealha
hypirion.com/musings/understan

Andres Moreno

@abcdw

This is why I ended up programming in Clojure. I much prefer the clean and sparse nature of Scheme but immutable data structures out of the box with a nice literal representation are a game-changing feature for the everyday programming that I was doing at the time.

No reader macros make it a lot less interesting for many other things like prototyping languages.

Andrew Tropin

> What's your Clojure setup in Guix? Have you published your Emacs dotfiles and Guix packages anywhere?

@monkey1 I don't do much clojure these days, but here it is: git.sr.ht/~abcdw/rde/tree/809c

Andres Moreno

@abcdw

Thanks so much! Lots in there but it will give me a good start!

Simon Brooke

@abcdw I'm increasingly persuaded that immutable data is a really good thing.

[DATA EXPUNGED]
Ludovic Courtès

@abcdw I find that vlists and vhashes in Guile are often helpful.

But yeah, we should add more of them, possibly borrowing them from Lokke, from github.com/ijp/pfds, etc.

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