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HistoPol (#HP)

@markearnest @Qazm @david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy

"...preemptively assuming Facebook will be misbehaving."

I think the incentives to either feast on #Mastodon or take it down are just far to great for that not to happen. Probably even within a year.

26 comments
Paul Chambers replied to Jay Thoden van Velzen β˜οΈβ€‹πŸ›‘οΈβ€‹:lolsob:

@jaythvv @david @HistoPol @markearnest @Qazm @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy

FediGram or FediBook

Someone with excess funds should start copyrighting / trademarking different play on names to keep Meta's grubby hands away from them.

David Boles replied to Paul

@paul @jaythvv @HistoPol @markearnest @Qazm @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy

Remember when Twitter took the "@Chase" username that a guy had for years and gave it to to the bank instead? We'll see a lot of that happening here.

Panama Red replied to David

@david @paul @jaythvv @HistoPol @markearnest @Qazm @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy I have a friend who's Dixie on the bird site. Dixie Cups offered her real money for the handle; she turned them down. She chose the handle because years ago she took a Facebook quiz that pronounced her "100% Dixie" (i.e., culturally very much of the southern U.S.).

Panama Red replied to David

@david @paul @jaythvv @HistoPol @markearnest @Qazm @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy She could counter by telling them to take Dixiecups or Dixie_Cups, both of which are taken but appear to never be used.

David Boles replied to Panama

@panamared27401 @paul @jaythvv @HistoPol @markearnest @Qazm @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy

Taken, but never used -- used to be sacrosanct. It didn't matter, Twitter claimed, if the username was being used or not. It was taken in perpetuity.

Then the Chase thing happened -- and Twitter suddenly said that usernames don't belong to users, they are, and have been, and always will be, the property of Twitter and they alone decide who gets to use them.

Panama Red replied to David

@david I vaguely recall that. I sort of figured it was being handled the same way that, for example, I couldn't have just snatched up mcdonalds.com as a domain name back when domain names first became a thing.

David Boles replied to Panama

@panamared27401

Domain names are a little different. They're much harder to take back.

I'm glad your friend kept her name! That's good news for the day!

Qazm

@HistoPol @markearnest @david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy For what it's worth, most forms of plausibly useful misbehaviour on this protocol would cost Facebook more than the other instances in terms of operating costs.

The one nasty thing they could do is make their client fetch media always from its origin rather than their cache, but that *should* be possible to mitigate through technical means.
(In the absolute worst case it may be necessary to make images available mainly through Cloudflare, which charges for storage rather than downloads and can easily absorb that kind of access.)

@HistoPol @markearnest @david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy For what it's worth, most forms of plausibly useful misbehaviour on this protocol would cost Facebook more than the other instances in terms of operating costs.

The one nasty thing they could do is make their client fetch media always from its origin rather than their cache, but that *should* be possible to mitigate through technical means.
(In the absolute worst case it may be necessary to...

David Boles replied to Qazm

@Qazm @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy

These are super fascinating problems that will have to be resolved -- but who, how and what will do the negotiating? Is there a Central Control to gatekeep these issues?

HistoPol (#HP) replied to David

@david @Qazm @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy

Apart from @Gargron, who works for a small non-profit company, I would not know who else.

I might become necessary that the big instances of the #Fediverse elect some form of representative, maybe like the #EuropeanCommission,

Cynthia Morse Linton replied to HistoPol
@HistoPol No, he’s got another guy now. He has a proper title, but I get the impression he’s the one that has to talk to the Venture. Although some of them may be a little cash strapped at the moment. <I will not snicker, I will not….>

@Gargron @Bluedepth @juneussell @davetroy @paul @markearnest @Qazm @darren @david @fediversereport
David Boles replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @Qazm @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy @Gargron

Yes, it's Gargron's party, but does he want to be the figurehead leader and ultimate gatekeeper? I think he should be that and more, but my sense of it is that he doesn't want to be that person.

HistoPol (#HP) replied to David

@david @Qazm @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy @Gargron

The nice thing about being the general manager of a company is that you can appoint others to do your bidding.

Also, isn't there something like a "Global Fediverse Association" or something?

Qazm replied to David

@david @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy @Gargron It's not really his to control, technically.

Mastodon is just the most popular compatible implementation in Western countries, but there are at least half a dozen good alternatives that already exist. Basically depends a bit on what kind of jank you're okay with personally, since they all behave a bit differently, and how you want to use it. Mastodon is "sort of Twitter-flavoured" access to the network, but that's not the only approach.

The ActivityPub protocol discussions are out of his hands too, since that's managed by the W3C (who also do the same for HTML and so on) and afaik did not originate from Mastodon.

@david @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy @Gargron It's not really his to control, technically.

Mastodon is just the most popular compatible implementation in Western countries, but there are at least half a dozen good alternatives that already exist. Basically depends a bit on what kind of jank you're okay with personally, since they all behave a bit differently, and how you want to use it. Mastodon is "sort of Twitter-flavoured"...

David Boles replied to Qazm

@Qazm @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy @Gargron

This is all new to me. It will be interesting to see if there is any negotiation involved, or if it's just take the software and make it what you will. Fork it if you have to, and welcome.

Qazm replied to David

@david @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy Most reporting gets this wrong, unfortunately, by focusing on Mastodon in particular. The ActivityPub info (main site at activitypub.rocks) isn't all that approachable unless you're a software developer already working with distributed systems to some extent, and the W3C rarely markets anything to the general public.

If you scroll down on fediverse.to, you can filter by a number of "Fediverse Software" implementations. These aren't necessarily all fully compatible, though.
For example, Mastodon and Bookwyrm exchange only direct messages but not timeline posts or book reviews (as of now. Nothing stops Mastodon from accepting book reviews later on, and it doesn't need any specific help from Bookwyrm to start doing so. That's the beauty of ActivityPub in my eyes).

Edit: Oh, and venera.social/profile/fedivers is a good example too, of course. We're technically talking in a Friendica group post's comments right now, even if it doesn't necessarily look like that from our point of view.
(Use the "view original page" function in case this opens like a Mastodon profile at first, likely in the triple dot menu in most clients.)

@david @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy Most reporting gets this wrong, unfortunately, by focusing on Mastodon in particular. The ActivityPub info (main site at activitypub.rocks) isn't all that approachable unless you're a software developer already working with distributed systems to some extent, and the W3C rarely markets anything to the general public.

Bluedepth replied to Qazm

@Qazm I appreciate all the fascinating detail you’re sharing. You explain very well. Thank you. πŸ™

Qazm replied to Bluedepth

@Bluedepth You're welcome, and thank you πŸ™‚

Runs a bit in the family I think; I'm a teachers' son who somehow ended up doing mainly software development so far. (These skills are quite useful when writing documentation and reports.)
I'm trying to branch out a little for my own sake though, so who knows what the future holds.

I'd say my number one advice for explaining well is to avoid jargon and to be open-minded about which common ground to start with, then build from there without going into too much theoretical detail. (If anyone wants to explore more, they can follow those links, after all, but that shouldn't be necessary to see the main point.)

It's harder to do online than in person, since there's no live feedback and fewer clues where to start, but you can still take some shortcuts based on the context of the discussion.

That said, sorry for all those edit notifications πŸ˜…
I'm pretty typo-prone especially on my phone.

@Bluedepth You're welcome, and thank you πŸ™‚

Runs a bit in the family I think; I'm a teachers' son who somehow ended up doing mainly software development so far. (These skills are quite useful when writing documentation and reports.)
I'm trying to branch out a little for my own sake though, so who knows what the future holds.

Qazm replied to David

@david @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy There's distributed control to some extent. Mastodon has *some* safety measures built into it to automatically rate-limit access from one source for example, though I don't know their extent or details. If there are too many requests then errors are returned, so there's an incentive to cache some data locally aside from latency.

(Some local caching is most likely also preferable just in terms of operating cost already. Fetching all that remote information live every time increases latency, which increases parallel in-progress incoming requests, which increases resource requirements significantly.)

@david @HistoPol @markearnest @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @davetroy There's distributed control to some extent. Mastodon has *some* safety measures built into it to automatically rate-limit access from one source for example, though I don't know their extent or details. If there are too many requests then errors are returned, so there's an incentive to cache some data locally aside from latency.

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