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tekphloyd :prami_neutral:

Should #Mastodon clients support #Markdown?

*Don’t forget to boost/reblog* 😉

Anonymous poll

Poll

Yes
1,495
79.8%
No
378
20.2%
1,873 people voted.
Voting ended 27 Feb 2023 at 19:24.
54 comments
ThatOneCalculator

@tekphloyd@social.lol you don't need to limit yourself to Mastodon -- many other Fediverse platforms support Markdown :)

Joel Drapper

@tekphloyd @elk supports a limited subset of markdown, and it's wonderful. I’d love to see it in @ivory.

Andreas Ringdal

@tekphloyd let us add more geek only features to scare away ordinary users.

Fish Id Wardrobe

@andemann @tekphloyd Italics are scary now? Whatsapp scares away users?

CautionWIP 🇨🇦 🏳️‍🌈

@andemann @tekphloyd It would be easy enough to set it up as an opt-in feature. That way those who want it can use it, those who don’t, won’t be bothered about it. This is already standard in glitch-soc, isn’t it the case in main?

Henrik Nyh

@tekphloyd I think this should be something you explicitly flag per post to avoid misrendering. (With a setting to always flag your posts.) Does Mastodon support custom metadata like a post format flag?

lamp

@tekphloyd all i really need is italic and maybe bold...

and strikethrough would be nice

Tak!

@tekphloyd No, because markdown should be supported on the server.

Tobias Hellgren

@tekphloyd Bad idea. We don't want to go back to MySpace. However, it's free for grabs for any client to implement MD interpretation, but shouldn't be forced through the API upon users who want a clean timeline

tekphloyd :prami_neutral:

@thanius 100%! It’s not a server-side thing. It’s about clients able to parse things like **bold**, *italic* and some
```
code = “Hello World!”
```
🙂

Fish Id Wardrobe

@tekphloyd @thanius Yes. We need to know that if your client and/or server doesn't support bold, the user sees *this* not this.

Whole point of Markdown is that it kind of does the job even raw.

Jonathan T

@tekphloyd @devinprater Custom fonts and different emphasis are an Accessibility nightmare on Twitter so, no, they should not. There's nothing stopping you from using *Markdown* syntax to add the _emphasis_ you want to your content, without having it change the way things look for everyone else.

Definitely the display of Markdown customisation should be optional if ever supported.

Elias Mårtenson

@tekphloyd This is something that is already supported on most servers. I think it's only base Mastodon that doesn't expose it, and even goes through the effort of stripping much of the markup when displaying posts.

This is the reason some clients have poor markup support, it's only been tested with basic Mastodon. Posts themselves are HTML, and are rendered fine in most places.

This post has bold and italics as well as a link with description.

tekphloyd :prami_neutral:

@loke How does that work? 😮 Have you used markdown? My server shows no format on "bold" and "italic", but renders the link with description. When I see your original post on your server, I can see the formatted text.

Jeremiah Lee

@tekphloyd Option 3: Fine to use it for authoring, but convert it to HTML on save/distribution.

joriki

@tekphloyd Not without some kind of opt-in for "process this message as markdown"

#NotH1Tag

Michal Bryxí

@del Opinions vary, but if it's on [markdown][1], then _some_ people will do it nevertheless and markdown formatter will make it _easier_ to read.

Switch to plain text should *always* be an option.

I would 100% go thermonuclear against WYSIWYG though.

[1]: markdownguide.org/

tekphloyd :prami_neutral:

@MichalBryxi @del 100%! No Comic Sans!!! 🤪 It should be simple and optional. That’s why the question mentions: Client. So if the post contains **bold**, *italic* or
```
var code = “hello!”;
```
The client can parse and show it nicely. 🙂

ADHDel-DRAFT-v10-final (2).doc

@MichalBryxi If you’re allowing formatting then the method you use to add said formatting should be down to the client. Standardise on Markdown for output but for people with learning or recall difficulties WSYWIG editing should be available otherwise we’re introducing barriers.

Michal Bryxí

@del I don't disagree, but I was not advocating against editors. Only against #WYSIWYG editors. 🙅
They are, in my opinion, the root of "why can't we have nice things" and source of most of the "#MSWord memes". 🤢
#WYSIWYM editors on the other hand: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYSIWYM 🧑‍🍳💋

ADHDel-DRAFT-v10-final (2).doc

@MichalBryxi I’m on board with that.

In my years as a web consultant the first thing I would do in content editors would be to disable all formatting and leave editors with just semantic styles to choose from in a drop-down.

Barkeeper Tom :damnified:

@tekphloyd in my opinion it should not be supported. People will just use it to attract attention and my Timeline will look scattered. Let's keep it simple :)

Camilo Bravo :bass: :drumset:

@thomas @tekphloyd I voted "yes", but I'd only like to see a very limited subset of its functionality implemented (links/bold/italic/etc., *maybe* lists, definitely not headings/tables).

Francis Rubio :verified:

@tekphloyd it doesn't even have to implement everything in Markdown. Even just a subset of bold, italics, strikethrough, inline code and code blocks, and tables maybe are enough.

davidak

@tekphloyd only if mastodon does (and it does not as far as i know)

it would make the timeline a mess

mastodon/twitter works because the messages are easy to read. don't ruin it

Inhabitant of Carcosa :emacs:

@davidak @tekphloyd On the other hand, people sometimes misuse Unicode characters (eg Unicode math characters for italics), which harms accessibility. I'd much rather see a limited set of accessible style options like markdown.

davidak

@carcosa i think formatting is not needed for a 500 characters post

write a blog instead

@tekphloyd

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :ablobfoxbongohyper:‮‮‮‮‮

@davidak@chaos.social @tekphloyd@social.lol The issue is Mastodon isn't the only Fediverse software. Every other Fediverse software already supports at least basic markdown. Even most of Mastodon's forks support it.

The issue currently is that Mastodon strips away markdown from other servers that use it. And that creates issues as markdown can change how something is read. Not even quotes are shown as quotes on vanilla mastodon.

Mark Gardner

@tekphloyd @clonezone I would like to answer with a qualified yes: *only* if they can round-trip saving, editing, and re-saving #Markdown successfully to and from #Mastodon without losing data or mangling a post. I have had problems with this in @icecubesapp

Douglas Phillips Books

@tekphloyd classic Mastodon post where a deep-in-the-code geek assumes everyone else knows what geeky thing they're talking about.

Caleb Hailey

@tekphloyd I think @Mastodon's role in the #Fediverse should be to *avoid* adding certain (most?) features. It should be the lowest common denominator option to help introduce new users to the wide world of the Fediverse, and then let the unique qualities of ActivityPub and WebFinger (etc) do the rest.

Want markdown support? Try X!

Sean Murthy

@tekphloyd Need a "Heck Yes" option.

No point writing 500 characters and *not* have the ability to emphasize and be fairly certain that others see the emphases.

tekphloyd :prami_neutral:

@Elendol A very simple… **bold**, *italic*
```
code
```
These are enough. 🙂 It will depend on the client developer really.

Elendol

@tekphloyd Sounds like a reasonable scope. I am afraid people will always ask for more and more features :)

Tbh I am a bit traumatised since I learned there is no standard for Markdown and so many variants 😬

Matthew Cave ⚾

@tekphloyd It’s not really a client issue. It’s largely a server issue. The glitch flavor of Mastodon supports link syntax and strike through, but not much else. Other servers will currently strip the formatting.

Oh, unless you mean for the clients to do their own interpretation… interesting thought. I’d have to guess EXTREMELY unlikely to happen, other than maybe in Ice Cubes. The open source nature of that one leads to LOTS of (sometimes proprietary) features.

𐱃𐱃𐰺

@tekphloyd Everything is better with markdown ![Sheldon Bluetooth meme](./memes/bluetooth.jpg)

Andrew Ross

@tekphloyd They should offer some sort of native formatting option, because otherwise people will use the mathematics characters to fake bold & italic, and those are a accessibility nightmare

Brennan Stehling

@tekphloyd Support for #Markdown would be really great. And instead of just “favorite” it would be useful to support multiple reactions to a post. Both LinkedIn and Facebook have a good selection.

eviloatmeal
@tekphloyd Yes please. Can my Mastodon client please support all akkoma features? Lol.
CSDUMMI✝️🕊️🏛️

@tekphloyd doesn't it already?

There's a #source propert in #activitypub with a #mediatype that could be text/markdown, while the actual content of a note is text/html resulting from this.

w3.org/TR/activitypub/#source-

I believe there are some mastodon forks already doing this

Andrew Woods

@tekphloyd Markdown should not be supported on Mastodon. It’ll force a support burden on all future mastodon apps to be backwards compatible. Once it’s available, people will expect you to use it , like they do on Discord. it won’t be opt-in. Also, writing markdown on mobile really sucks .

Telokopolis Is Eternal

@tekphloyd this should be a server-side feature, and unless you're using vanilla Mastodon, that's what the rich-text-enabled part of the Fediverse already does. the spec says HTML on the wire, not Markdown, and definitely not HTML, strip it into plain text, and then pretend it's Markdown.

ShadSterling

@tekphloyd do posts not have something comparable to a content-type header?

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