Gregory's ServerThe mostly-abandoned Old Town Mall in Baltimore - a pioneering attempt at an urban pedestrian mall that failed badly. Find out why: https://www.abandonedamerica.us/kaufmans-department-store
Abandoned America
44 comments
Peggy
@AbandonedAmerica *This* town is abandoned? omg. Is there nothing that can be done with this space? Reminds me of Bruce Springsteen;s song, "My Hometown"
Abandoned America
@CivicDutyPeg obviously a lot of Baltimore is not abandoned but this part certainly has been left behind
yellowstreetlight
@AbandonedAmerica @CivicDutyPeg there’s people every night with some businesses still running. It is just that the city has prioritized developing other areas
Abandoned America
@yellowstreetlight @CivicDutyPeg it also is a shame that those people running those businesses are pleading with the city for support and it honestly doesn't seem like that support is there. IDK what is going on behind the scenes but even just getting that grocery store in there would be a miracle
yellowstreetlight
@AbandonedAmerica @CivicDutyPeg
Matthew Clifton
@AbandonedAmerica As an urban dweller, this looks like a district or neighborhood that could be so vibrant with a little bit of TLC. I do *not* understand the intricacies of city politics, but helping out the businesses that are already there and are asking for help from the city seems like it would be a great place to start.
Abandoned America
@cliftonmr hoo boy. You should read the article on it that I wrote. This place has been struggling for a long time and for many reasons. TLC is definitely not enough here
Chris Broome
@AbandonedAmerica When we talk about tearing down the JFX in Baltimore, it’s about restoring an urban river, but really it would be a good chance to revive this area. As the article notes, the urban highway effectively walls off Old Town from the downtown.
Chris Broome
@AbandonedAmerica Atrocious is a good word for it. Not only take an urban river, and bisect the city, so many corners were cut in its construction that there are multiple stretches that produce daily dangerous car crashes. “The Pepsi Sign” has become local lore. Hopefully you’ll be able to do a series on abandoned urban highways and feature this one.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica well, shit. I came out of a school of architecture that focused HEAVILY on pedestrian and traditional architectural patterns, any two or three of our graduates could have told them how to do this right.
Abandoned America
@zombierottenmcdonald far be it from me to pretend I know more than you do on the subject with your background but it really seems like they needed to invest more in the surrounding area before a mall like this would ever be feasible
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica you're not wrong. But neighborhood oriented development can be led in two or three ways: residential infill (have done) retail / mixed use infill (have done) transit oriented development (like Portland/ Seattle, but you have to get people to get over their hatred of buses first). And then, don't call it a mall.
Abandoned America
@zombierottenmcdonald I honestly am unfamiliar with those terms but am fascinated by your take on it. I did my homework for why this place failed but it's no substitute for knowledge of the field.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica Transit Oriented Development, in the NW: they restricted development to low and mid rise, and had to be located along transit lines, with parking located away from streets and emphasizing bikes. Residential development boomed, commercial followed, and the areas along transit lines were like a Sim City test site. So like all of us urbanists always said, people LIKE transit, density and living next to other people and maybe don't need McMansions.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica yes, would need some kind of focus. In Milwaukee, the African American Community - for which I have done several hundred residential units and infill - are looking to fulfill the historic character that was known as Bronzeville before the white people killed it with a freeway, now has the most notable Black Holocaust Museum in the country. And then we tore down a freeway that cut the neighborhood off from downtown, and now connects to the arena where the Bucks are kicking ass
Abandoned America
@zombierottenmcdonald well, the freeway is a huge problem here too. Would be nice to see that go. Glad the Milwaukee project was successful
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica well, now I start to wish I took more 'before' photos of the wrecks that I have helped restore. I was part of a team that stopped demolition of the 8 story Manitowoc Hotel. We helped the alderman stop the demolition of one of Milwukee's TWO extant row houses. SO MANY SCARY BASEMENTS....
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica but frankly, I am an architect, and I love to build, not get overwhelmed by the degradation. - frankly, I sometimes find your postings a bit disheartening, through no fault of your own. Just gets a bit of a gut punch
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica here's what I mean: our house is a rickety old kind-of Victorian that was one of the first built in the neighborhood, by permit records. Built for a doctor, and the layout indicates he may have had patients visit. It was built in 1904 - yes, it was built balloon frame, but modified....It has WAY more windows than any house at the time, and likely more ghosts than we've ever seen. But it is a stately lady, standing proud on a corner of the East Side.
Abandoned America
@zombierottenmcdonald I love stories like that and if you have any good distressed projects let me know if I can do before photos - and honestly I get discouraged by it too. But it's important to record because a) it's who we are, b) it is our present moment, and c) hopefully the sheer waste of it will change minds about wanton demolition. Not hopeful about c but it would be nice
Abandoned America
@zombierottenmcdonald honestly there are a lot of elements in what you're talking about that are super familiar from the Old Town story
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica Oh, shit, I KNOW why: they aped the architectural facades without providing the real substance and infrastructure that made traditional retail corridors successful. And they spent WAY too much time providing parking.
Abandoned America
@zombierottenmcdonald well, I mean, again, i can only speak to my research on this area but yes, the infrastructure WAS really poor for it. But the facades are mostly real, as far as I can tell: it was a pretty historic retail corridor
zombie rotten mcdonald
@AbandonedAmerica OK, I tak back what I said. I am a huge supporter of restoration but for much, the buildings are too small to support being restored by themselves, they don't cash flow. Here's one I did that is a perfect example: it was only viable when rolled into a 40 unit scattered sites development
Abandoned America
@zombierottenmcdonald I guess the advantage I have is that I deal in the ephemeral hopes for a place and not the reality of how to get it there
M Horstmeier
@AbandonedAmerica It's Baltimore so there must be a Wonder Wharf somewhere in the distance
Abandoned America
@solargroovy I only saw the movie but not the series but I really enjoyed it and have been wanting to see more when I got the time. I did meet two of the actors who did voices and the guy who composed the music though 👍
M Horstmeier
@AbandonedAmerica Huge fan of show and movie. https://www.abandonedamerica.us/photo47247137.html I prefer to believe there might be a wonder wharf in the far background of this shot
Abandoned America
@solargroovy haha don't want to spoil it for you but the background is just more abandoned stuff mostly. Actually the abandoned RJ Loocke Auto Parts place was back that way about a block away
Matthew Clifton
@AbandonedAmerica If it is the article you linked, I promise I did read it! You are right. I have a very "I live so far away from here but it looks like it could be cute attitude", but I know it is really more complex than that. Lack of jobs in the area, and by extension the poverty, are a tough issue to tackle. It sounds like a vicious cycle.
Abandoned America
@cliftonmr it was, and thank you! I didn't mean that to be snarky, I just meant that it is a huge old mess there. They need a grocery store before anything else 😕
Matthew Clifton
@AbandonedAmerica Aye! I was not introduced to the concept of a #fooddesert until I was an adult. It is crazy how living in the middle of one affects a person.
Abandoned America
@cliftonmr yeah. I have to say I've been very privileged in that sense. Even when I lived in North Philly there was a grocery store although it closed later
Bodhipaksa
@AbandonedAmerica Thanks. That's a sad and fascinating story of an area dined to be blighted by bad planning decisions.
Abandoned America
@bodhipaksa yeah, as always I have no idea what I'm getting into when I start writing about a place and then find out things are infinitely more complex than they look at first
Richard "Widget" Ford Burley
@AbandonedAmerica the one in Lebanon, New Hampshire is one of the few strange examples of an "urban renewal" that actually worked. Looks just the same.
Richard "Widget" Ford Burley
@AbandonedAmerica I think it held on by a thread just long enough to develop one, to be honest. These days it's a cute little town square with a few restaurants and businesses and a community college, and there are people working really hard behind the scenes to make events happen there
tobie
@AbandonedAmerica I've passed the place a few times and, having heard about its history on the local NPR station, it has come to embody the struggles of the city over the past 40 years for me. Can't help but shed a tear.
Chris Silvia
@AbandonedAmerica housing and retail are a feedback loop. Putting retail in a place where nobody lives won't work. Cobblestones or pedestrianization won't magically draw in crowds. But people who live nearby, or can easily get to the location by foot, will probably shop at local business. It seems like Baltimore tried everything except things that will work, like removing the highway
Abandoned America
@christosilvia that's a fair assessment - also, addressing the poverty in the area, which the freeway no doubt ties into. |
@AbandonedAmerica i used to love biking through here when I lived in baltimore. maybe I can find some pics from back then