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Juan Luis

@blacklight Impossible to decide where to start replying to this multi-branched thread (and, oh the irony, Mastodon doesn't do a good job at showing those branches), but 10000 % agreed with what you said.

A few folks monopolizing the replies essentially saying "#Sourcehut is just fine" illustrates the problem perfectly.

Some thoughts:

16 Oct 2022 at 10:45 | Wall-to-wall | Open on fosstodon.org
8 comments
Juan Luis

@blacklight It's clear that some hardcore F/LOSS users couldn't care less about the very concept of UX, dismissing it as bloat. We need to build bridges with people who have the vision of open, decentralized technology that creates delight and can reach "the average user". @humanetech is a huge source of inspiration to me.

16 Oct 2022 at 10:46 | Open on fosstodon.org
Juan Luis

@blacklight F/LOSS folks are often worried about finding "the open alternative to X", without reflecting one second what problem does X resolve, if any.

And this is a bad strategy, because capitalism will keep producing X'es endlessly and relentlessly, and the F/LOSS community will always be doomed to pursue impossible goals.

What about solving the problem of "having an online presence" and "being in the social network kids these days find cool"? That's what 99 % of small businesses want.

16 Oct 2022 at 10:49 | Open on fosstodon.org
Juan Luis

@blacklight Damn, even autonomous social centers ignore the #fediverse. It's easier to find them in Twitter than it is to find them here. While Mastodon has advanced the #fediverse a lot, there are still some rough edges.

But fixing those require designers and UX people, which are nowhere as privileged as coders. And therefore, it's more difficult that the find the time, the energy, the incentives to help us.

Especially if we are assholes to them, or dismiss their work.

16 Oct 2022 at 10:52 | Open on fosstodon.org
Juan Luis

@blacklight It saddens me to see that the state of the conversation is still so poor. But it inspires me a lot that there are people voicing their concerns and even patiently arguing with obtuse folks. I don't think I would have so much patience.

In other words: thank you ❀️

16 Oct 2022 at 10:53 | Open on fosstodon.org
:gnu: bonifartius π’‚Όπ’„„

@astrojuanlu @blacklight
> It saddens me to see that the state of the conversation is still so poor.

because people disagree here and instead are happy with sourcehut not being yet another github clone?

it's not that i don't want nice usable software, it's that my idea of nice & usable is different. implement aria stuff to help accessibility? fuck yeah. add meta tags to have other tools process my stuff? of course. add shitloads of JS so that a page can't be used in a browser like netsurf or with js disabled? fuck off. maybe "the browser" just has outlived it's days as application platform.
this "make it ez" line of thought has brought us shit like systemd and consolekit and i hate it. things can be usable without being technological dumpster fires. you wrote yourself that we shouldn't imitate things in "floss". imitating shit to make it more sexy for more adoption is the opposite.

> even autonomous social centers ignore the #fediverse

of course they do, their members are probably in to virtue signal like 99% of people are everywhere. a fringe social media network doesn't help with that, so it's ignored.

@astrojuanlu @blacklight
> It saddens me to see that the state of the conversation is still so poor.

because people disagree here and instead are happy with sourcehut not being yet another github clone?

it's not that i don't want nice usable software, it's that my idea of nice & usable is different. implement aria stuff to help accessibility? fuck yeah. add meta tags to have other tools process my stuff? of course. add shitloads of JS so that a page can't be used in a browser like netsurf or with...

17 Oct 2022 at 6:32 | Open on qoto.org
Juan Luis

@bonifartius I don't have time for arguing with you, sorry

17 Oct 2022 at 8:44 | Open on fosstodon.org
:gnu: bonifartius π’‚Όπ’„„

@astrojuanlu i don't even want to argue with you πŸ€·β€β™€οΈ

i just don't see why having a radically different UX from mainstream is a bad thing. i think it's a good thing that free software isn't constrained by what is "trend". i think those radically different approaches are an unique selling point.

things like sourcehut which are not "fancy" also enable people to to use it which might have problems using github etc.

i'd venture that composing mails is likely more easy than navigating the github ui if you are handicapped.

the gamification by github has always deterred me (and i know from others) from publishing my things there, as they never will get many stars. the commit graph facilitates a style of work which very likely is bad for mental health.

it's no surprise that many long running projects are often just a repository somewhere and a mailing-list. it's a surprisingly efficient style of work while keeping people sane as there is no virtual pressure like a commit graph.

@astrojuanlu i don't even want to argue with you πŸ€·β€β™€οΈ

i just don't see why having a radically different UX from mainstream is a bad thing. i think it's a good thing that free software isn't constrained by what is "trend". i think those radically different approaches are an unique selling point.

things like sourcehut which are not "fancy" also enable people to to use it which might have problems using github etc.

17 Oct 2022 at 9:05 | Open on qoto.org
~ashwinvis

@astrojuanlu
@blacklight
If it makes you happy, I recently heard that in the recent KDE conference, it has been decided that one of the goals of coming years will be accessibility

community.kde.org/Goals

17 Oct 2022 at 21:08 | Open on mastodon.acc.sunet.se
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