Email or username:

Password:

Forgot your password?
Martin Owens :inkscape:'s posts Post Back to profile
Top-level
Glitzersachen.de

@TimWardCam @doctormo

And that's allowed in some parts of the world? Wow.

28 Dec 2024 at 12:59 | Wall-to-wall | Open on hachyderm.io
11 comments
Tim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPE

@glitzersachen @doctormo Yes. Everybody's happy, what's not to like?

28 Dec 2024 at 13:00 | Open on c.im
Glitzersachen.de

@TimWardCam @doctormo

Conflict of interest, capture of union representatives by employers etc.

Basically "Everybody's happy, what's not to like?" is the go-to justification for corruption.

Remind me: Where is it allowed again that "the union does some of the employer's HR department's work as well"? Asking for a friend ...

28 Dec 2024 at 13:03 | Open on hachyderm.io
Tim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPE

@glitzersachen @doctormo The UK.

For example, an employee, not necessarily knowing who's best placed to answer a query, might go to their union rep rather than their line manager or HR to ask "How do I ...? How does ... work? What would happen if ...?" and if the union happens to know the right answer then that saves HR and/or management time. (Of course the union will signpost them on when appropriate, eg if they don't know the answer or it's not their business to give it.)

28 Dec 2024 at 13:11 | Open on c.im
Tim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPE

@glitzersachen @doctormo Particularly if the union rep is on the shop floor, the line manager is always in meetings, and HR is on a different site.

28 Dec 2024 at 13:13 | Open on c.im
Glitzersachen.de

@TimWardCam @doctormo

It's not the "giving people information on HR issues" part I am concerned about, but rather the dependency created by a payment.

From my union I actually expect to provide a certain amount of counseling.

28 Dec 2024 at 13:20 | Open on hachyderm.io
Tim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPE

@glitzersachen @doctormo That seems to be how it works. It worked OK in the only organisation in which I was involved in such things.

28 Dec 2024 at 13:23 | Open on c.im
Glitzersachen.de
Tim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPE

@glitzersachen @doctormo Yes. A small district council. In my day (this may well have changed) two reps from different unions were each paid half time to do their day jobs and half time to look after their union members. Which included things like working on the union side of some non-trivial restructuring deals.

28 Dec 2024 at 13:25 | Open on c.im
Glitzersachen.de replied to Tim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPE

@TimWardCam @doctormo

I think this would not be called "being paid for doing HR's job". It's typical that union reps from the employees are still employed 100%, but get leave to handle union business (or worker's council business) for a certain percentage of their time ("freigestellt" in German, but I cannot find an equivalent, maybe "released for", but this sounds fishy to my ears).

Their work contract (at least in DE) don't change which avoids part of the dependency problem.

28 Dec 2024 at 13:31 | Open on hachyderm.io
Glitzersachen.de replied to Glitzersachen.de

@TimWardCam @doctormo

Also note that commercial enterprises and organisations on the government / local admin side are typically rather different beasts. At least in Germany the laws also partly differ.

28 Dec 2024 at 13:33 | Open on hachyderm.io
Tim Ward ⭐πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸ”Ά #FBPE replied to Glitzersachen.de

@glitzersachen @doctormo Ah, so that sounds like the same thing. The "paid to do HR's job" was a comment from management observing that if the union reps weren't there then they'd have to hire another HR person.

(For a while I chaired the committee of councillors which in theory oversaw the management - staff relationships, and whose job was to decide any issues that management and unions couldn't agree on between themselves. In practice our meetings consisted of management and unions telling us that they were getting on absolutely fine together, and they were sure they could sort out the current disagreements using their existing working relationships and policies and procedures, and the last thing they needed was us councillors interfering. So basically we were a last-resort backstop insurance policy that was never called upon to pay out.)

@glitzersachen @doctormo Ah, so that sounds like the same thing. The "paid to do HR's job" was a comment from management observing that if the union reps weren't there then they'd have to hire another HR person.

(For a while I chaired the committee of councillors which in theory oversaw the management - staff relationships, and whose job was to decide any issues that management and unions couldn't agree on between themselves. In practice our meetings consisted of management and unions telling us...

28 Dec 2024 at 13:48 | Open on c.im
Go Up