Gregory's Server@66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid It was between 3.5 and 7% for all the ones I've looked at for the last 5 years, where'd you find a much higher one (4% was kind of the average for some years, but it differs a bit, affected by inflation as well? And well.. You need profits so that people will put down capital for them right?
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 @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid The quarterly reports are public though. I didn't see a huge snowballing in the ones I looked at (which admittedly was only UHC and 2 others). They mostly seemed to roughly correlate with interest rates which is what you'd expect. @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid What is your ulterior motive in defending for profit health insurance? Do you own stock? @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Some of the best health are systems in the world (like where I live), have for profit health insurance. They give people choice, like I can theoretically pay for a lower premium and then have a health insurance that doesn't cover expensive end of life care that I don't want. Those kind of things. Other than that I'm not really attached to it. Single payer systems can work well too if they're well run. But also have nothing against it in principle. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid I do not own any stocks, ETFs or anything like that has insurance companies in it. I do have some in companies that produce medical imaging equipment. Which I was just arguing the US uses way too much of ;-). @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Health care and health insurance are not the same thing. Some of the best medical facilities are in the US. We pay the most for health care here and get some of the worst outcomes. This is not a recipe for success no matter how you slice it. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Yeah. I was talking about health insurance. The Dutch health insurance system is even more for profit than the US one (no medicare here), and it works fine 🙂. (Better regulations though) @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Are you SURE they are for-profit. Private health insurance that is NOT for-profit works well. @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid A quick search tells me it is not for-profit. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid I live there and pay a lot of money to a company called Zilveren Kruis every month :p. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilveren_Kruis it definitely makes money :) @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Looks like their profit margin was about 2% last year: https://www.zilverenkruis.nl/overons/feiten-en-cijfers/onze-jaarcijfers-2023 @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid They are nonprofit. Any profits are used to make improvements. In the US, CEO's get bigger yachts and people die. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Their CEO makes a 2 million base salary, and then bonusses on top of that. Not the biggest yachts I'm sure, definitely not as big as some of the Americans. But 2 million plus bonuses and stock can make you a pretty penny :-). @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid He made 8 million in bonus. Bonus' are determined by how much you save (deny) in life saving care. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid I was talking about the CEO of my health insurance company. I believe only her base salary is public, not sure about the bonuses. @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid The bonus was info put out after Brian Thompson was killed. People are suffering from for profit health insurance, and you trivialize it at every turn. Search "is dutch Silver Cross for profit". @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid You do realize stuff on the internet is wrong right? Why not use their own website and their own year reports :). Also, we might be affected by google targeted delivery here but that query just takes me to their website for me and that confirms they do pay dividend and are a for profit company. So not sure what it's linking you to sadly. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid (And again, wasn't talking about the US, I was talking about the CEO of Achmea, the insurance company that owns by health insurance company, they make 2 million a year base. And I don't think their bonuses are public, but I might be wrong.) @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid The stock pays dividend occasionally.. I'd argue that means some of the profit is not placed into making improvements 🙂. But if we're only counting profits paid in dividends rather than reinvested we're using a definition of profit that is rather unusual. @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid due. I know what I read. They consider your system nonprofit. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Who is they? I showed you their wiki page, I can show you the dividend payments as well if you want? It's all public. There are a couple of insurance companies here which are cooperative and that don't pay dividend. I'm not with one of those though. If memory serves me right the US has a couple of regional health insurance co-ops as well. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid Paywalled sadly but: https://news.achmea.nl/achmea-distributes-capital-to-shareholders/ Also their public financial numbers are here: Like this is from their own website, I don't know how much more reliable you want this, but I'll happily look at your sources. @Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid This affirms for me you have no idea how much worse for profit is. I'm beginning to think you do not care. @66gardeners @SearingTruth @QasimRashid If CEOs make millions of dollars in salaries and bonusses, shareholders get hundreds of millions in dividend, a company is for-profit. It's that simple. You have continued to make this claim without sharing a single piece of evidence, which makes me feel like you don't take this conversation seriously. In any case, our system works great, the US system is garbage. This isn't because of 'profit', it's because of greed and corruption. |
@Schouten_B @SearingTruth @QasimRashid
There are no reliable statistics. The industry says 2-3%. I found a source that used 2% to 10%. The only way to reliably know is to see if profits have snowballed. They have.