Gregory's ServerI think it's going to be more important than ever that #Mastodon and the #fediverse are not centrally operated out of the US unlike almost every other social media platform out there.
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 @Gargron we really need EU to help in this
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6 November at 8:21 | Open on sironi.tk
  @Gargron 100% agree. US stands a good chance of becoming much more oligarchic under Trump, with politics starting to seep into how the company leaders operate. They wonβt call it that obviously, because theyβll be oblivious to it. But politics it will be regardless. Theyβll call it business, but it will be politics agreed to in back rooms instead of government corridors. with politics starting to seep into how the company leaders operate Always has been.   i think it's pretty black and white that threads is the same company whose algos got us into this mess i think anyone who sees working with meta as benign is naive, at best and i think mastodon not blocking threads is deeply unserious you don't get "to play a serious role" serving the very same malice that mastodon was created to oppose you get laughed at and then discarded  @benroyce, @vosje62, @thibault β But you didn't respond to Paul's point. Wasn't the whole point of Mastodon to provide an *alternative* client for an *open* network that no individual or company needs permission to use, allowing for a plurality of values and policies across instances? By all means, pick an inherently walled technology if that's what you want, but asking Mastodon to be that seems like asking Mastodon not to be Mastodon. I think at this point we're well past the "if you don't let plutocrats and nazis on your network you're a hypocrite" argument, wouldn't you agree? Freedom doesn't mean letting actors who oppose freedom free reign- a logically sound point. There is no contradiction Because we're talking about a social contract I grant you as much rights as I grant myself If you use those rights to say someone doesn't deserve rights, you've voided the contract and I owe you nothing @Starfia I think you are right. The open structure is the basics of the system. So far there are enough 'unwanted servers' around that don't get federated. With Threads it is not different. - Both servers and individuals can set the bounderies they want. - That's is how it works for all parties. @vosje62 @Starfia @thibault but more importantly that subset of servers that does block all of dark fedi and threads and bluesky and gab and truth social, etc, are those servers expressing the freedom of the network the best because you fail to comprehend the threat plutocrat, bigoted, and fascist actors represent to the freedom of the network @bjoern @vosje62 @Starfia @thibault agreed someone can make any network they want any rules they want but if their rules suck (bigotry, etc), they're relegated to obscurity as they should be we simply let the pieces fall where they may, and we stop pretending bigotry and tolerance can coexist they can't @bjoern @vosje62 @Starfia @thibault nothing you said disagrees with anything i said a mastodonserverpact+ that says no to threads and bluesky doesn't mean you have to join it. it also doesn't mean servers aren't willing to join the + pact of their own free will. this is voluntary, coordinated group action if it is appealing enough along with other provisions in the + pact it will grow and be successful and, forgive my directness: who gives a shit if someone doesn't like it it's voluntary  @hajovonta @thibault @Gargron You can block out all of Threads in one go from your own account? How?  @chaosmonkey @hajovonta @thibault @Gargron find a Threads account (like @zuck), open the menu you'd normally do if you wanted to block an account, and pick "Block domain threads.net". @noodlejetski @hajovonta @thibault @Gargron @zuck Cool! That works, thanks! I had to use the #Mastodon app because apparently #Tusky doesn't have that option.  @noodlejetski @sloanlance But of course, ymmv.  @collectifission @thibault @Gargron i think thibault is only asking eugen to block threads from mastodon.social @Gargron I actually find solace in the fact that I'm here in a safe place. So thanks for all your hard work.  @vruz The board of the 501c3 does not have any legal power over the German entity which holds all the assets. This is a concern I've already had in mind. I can obviously imagine the concern has crossed your mind, but the idea that the German legal system can stop an insider attack seems not very well thought out. @vruz I'll repeat, separate entity. They're not "inside"--except as trusted advisors and mentors.  @vruz @Gargron at that point it just seems discriminatory... US citizens are oppressed by systems and billionaires. Most of us didn't vote for Trump (he won through voter suppression and interference from the rich and powerful), and most of us don't have the power nor the desire to exploit that the 1% owners of centralized social media have. We need help, not isolation. Utter imperialist nonsense. The privileges of a few American individuals are not above the need of the rest of the world to maintain reliable means of communication and socialisation. It is discriminatory, with good reason. Take a look around you. It is because of shit like this that what is happening happens.   Into your complete and utter irrelevance. Your instance accept anyone, even the worst spammers, and your little behind-the-scene backroom deals with FB and friends are fooling no one. You have my respect fro writing something usable and useful but it is way past its due-date.   I don't think it's entirely certain/predictable which direction Bluesky will go. But that uncertainty alone is reason enough to support a platform that got the foundations right from the get-go imo.   @davey_cakes I am for interoperability. That is the underlying principle of the fediverse and how all the Mastodon and non-Mastodon platforms on the fediverse talk to each other. @Gargron well I would politely suggest that standards of conduct and safety are going to mean more to people than interoperability over the next while. Perhaps now is a good time to address how to make the out-of-the-box Mastodon experience one where people aren't exposed to white nationalists by default. You have a chance to do something. @davey_cakes Improving the moderation experience by allowing admins to subscribe to shared blocklists is something we're planning for our next release, 4.4. @Gargron I'm aware, but is that largely streamlining an existing practice which people still need to be here a while to understand? I've used shared blocklists. I'd like the company to explicitly direct people to block lists of known problem servers, will that happen? Will we move beyond the likelihood of what happened the DAIR server happening again, where people join Fedi on the promise of how progressive it is, and get put on blast by neonazis? "Oh we all have them blocked, do you not?"   @Eugen Rochko It is good to have servers all over the world, but more and more countries are trying to censor social media. It's not just the United States. Right now they are targeting big social media worldwide, but I would not be surprised if they try and come after us too eventually. Free speech gives us power, and advocates of censorship don't like that.
     @Gargron That should have been a given the day a certain person took over Twitter.    @Gargron We're here and welcoming to any and all people who identify themselves from north of the 49th parallel (and south for Ontario) on Turtle Island. If folks who identify as such but are abroad and want to join but are being blocked, please email us at hello@mstdn.ca and we'll make it right.  @Gargron I've signed up with Univesedon because I like having backups.This instance was down for about 2 hours..I hope it's not a portent of what is going to happen.   Of course. Itβs also even more necessary to keep out the surveillance networks like Thread and Reddit. Looking ahead more publicly funded instances might be helpful to grow the reach and volume of relevant content.  Going by some incidents with Protonmail, Switzerland is known to collaborate with anti-environmentalists and fascists. @Gargron I agree. Still, what's the matter with Social Web Foundation? Honest question. I see all these dubious companies over there. What's the game plan to have them (and their agendas) on the party?  @Gargron Thanks Eugen for sharing this vision. However, I think there is a mighty lot of work to do making Mastodon more accessible to average users  @RΓ’u Cao β‘ I'm still looking for a friendly jurisdiction, and every country I have looked at is becoming more and more bureaucratic and more restrictive. Despite attempts to censor or suppress people's free speech in the United States, it still has some of the best protections for free speech and free association worldwide.
 @Gargron tho to be entirely fair, it's been the Democrats who have driven the recent all-of-government censorship project. The Trumpists & non-Democrat lefties have been the chief victims. @Gargron I'm new here, but yeah the landscape seems totally different. Definitely important  @Gargron Thank heaven! Crucially important, I would have thought .......  @Gargron this is important. Very important. However, as this election has shown, the 'negative choice' is not enough. #Mastodon needs to be the positive choice. With features, innovations and services that go beyond what others are offering, and entice people to come and to stay. Of course that's not just up to you or the GmbH, but the things people create around this. But you can help in setting the culture, and creating joy in the core apps and services.  @Gargron Glad to hear you're gonna stop accepting new registrations on your centrally administered mega-instances. @Gargron I deleted all my other social media apps to keep me mentally healthy. Keep up the good work. I really feel like weβre going go be under siege here in the US, but Iβm more worried about the Ukrainian people this morning. Europe, Iβm sorry. πΊπ¦   @Gargron @Gargron my thoughts exactly. More of this please. Letβs try and scoop out at least some of the firmament that allowed this to happen  absolutely  I think it's going to be more important than ever that HUMANS are not centrally operated out of the US unlike almost every other social media platform out there.  @Gargron theyβre gonna ban any apps not located in the US. The walled garden is getting taller walls.  @gargron @Gargron Yeah, I'm moving TechHub back to Canada. It's going to be PITA, but it needs to be done.  @Gargron Possibility #fediverse will be banned in the U.S. now, or used to attack people of difference and different opinions, from the Nazi ones.  @Gargron What difference does it makes if the private messages here aren't still encrypted and can be accessed by the 3-letter US organizations as they wish even without your knowledge? @gargron Thanks to all of us for doing this important work, not always agreeing on everything but still pushing this forward @Gargron Yes, would be great to have a Mastodon server App readily available in e.g. a kitchen self hosted #freedombox or #uberspace lab guide https://lab.uberspace.de/ I'm still looking for the quickest and cheapest way for hosting a family instance. Matrix, Mumble and XMPP are already running well. Next is Fediverse Goto Social or Mastodon or similar.  @Gargron please, please, please work with your peers in the Fediverse software space to prioritize nomadic identity migration and instance/domain migration Being able to move to a new instance while retaining the post history is going to be crucial in the coming times. @Gargron also of import is to prioritize moderation and safety features as well as e2ee messaging. It's a lot to ask for, but our community needs to actively work towards it yesterday. @Gargron One of the BIG things I like about Mastodon is that the host is subject to German laws. As a Jew this has given me some feeling of safety to post here. Thank you. Which reminds me I probably ought to renew my donation.  @Gargron At the same time, Meta is getting its hooks deep into this system, and how long until they move to the end of the embrace - extend - exclude - extinguish path theyβve followed for two damned decades?  @Gargron All I can say right now is that I shut down my Twitter account this morning. Basically I made it private, logged off, and "forgot the password" so that nobody can use my old name as a spambot. I'm staying here on Mastodon, and will follow back all who follow me. @Gargron Yes, everyone needs to get the f**k off Threads, Bluesky, FB, and X/Twitter. These sites can be powerful tools for organizing, but the oligarchy is in full force right now and all the owners of those sites are part of that system. Mastodon is the only means of organizing that is not centrally owned. @Gargron One thing I would like to see is a default block of hate and bigotry, something that users can choose to implement or not, something configurable. Or at least up front info on how-to. New folks need a wee bit more hand-holding and not the assumption that they 'just know' how to navigate the #fediverse, and being able to preemptively block things (or at least be given the knowledge on how to *when they join*) would save vulnerable people a lot of grief. |
