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feuerrot

"In order to give a fairer chance to people from abroad (international bank transfers take time), and in order to not push expensive payment methods like instant bank transfers and credit cards[…]" (from events.ccc.de/congress/2024/in)

Does anyone pay their #38C3 ticket via an international bank transfer iff they also have a credit card? AFAICT (based on what my bank would charge) it's almost 10 times more expensive (5,33€ vs. at least 47,50€) than a credit card payment.

27 October at 19:03 | Open on chaos.social
16 comments
feuerrot

(At least the SCT Inst part will be irrelevant by next congress, thanks to 'Regulation (EU) 2024/886 of the European Parliament')

27 October at 19:07 | Open on chaos.social
Katti

@feuerrot that depends on the bank. For example, Wells Fargo and Bank of America charge 0$ when you transfer foreign currency instead of dollars.

27 October at 19:25 | Open on chaos.social
feuerrot

@Katti at least BoA states "For international wire transfers, markups are included in Bank of America, N.A. […] exchange rates" and "For international wire transfers, in addition to our standard wire transfer fee, other fees may also apply, including those charged by the recipient’s financial institution, foreign taxes, and other fees that are part of the wire transfer process." in a footnote way below their "0$ fees" (info.bankofamerica.com/en/digi)

27 October at 19:39 | Open on chaos.social
feuerrot

@Katti my 47,50€ figure includes 'at least 25€' of "foreign bank costs" if the payer pays all fees ("OUR") - which I'd expect is necessary, because otherwise the payee's bank would also charge some amount of fees and CCCV wouldn't receive the full amount(?)

27 October at 19:43 | Open on chaos.social
Dany

@feuerrot I was about to say "I do" but I'm within the SEPA, so an international bank transfer is just the same to me as a domestic transfer.

27 October at 21:01 | Open on hsnl.social
jomo

@feuerrot how does a 24h interval give you a fair chance when even a standard SEPA transfer takes a day of made-up delay (if submitted within the imaginary opening hours of their server)?

I think international bank transfers can take several days?

27 October at 22:55 | Open on mstdn.io
rixx

@jomo @feuerrot It doesn’t make things 100% equal, sure, but it does reduce the difference, particularly for people within the SEPA/Euro zone but outside Germany.

Not sure what you mean by “made-up delay” – the delay starts at the time of ordering the ticket, not at paying it, therefore giving people whose payment doesn’t arrive within <24h a more even playing field.

As for the “imaginary opening hours of their server” – if you can convince the banks to process transfers 24/7, you’re my hero.

28 October at 11:56 | Open on chaos.social
jomo

@rixx the "made-up delay" referred to the arbitrary delay that banks impose on processing payments, not the presale. AFAIK the delay for SEPA is always 1 bank working day, regardless of the origin and target country.

I just noticed it said "fairer chance", not "fair chance", which is sorta true. My point is that unless you use an instant payment method your payment will arrive after the replication timeout, so you'll receice considerably less vouchers than those using instant payment methods.

28 October at 12:28 | Open on mstdn.io
jomo

@rixx I hope that the EU regulation @feuerrot mentioned will convince banks to support instant payments by next year :D

28 October at 12:28 | Open on mstdn.io
rixx

@jomo Hmm, not really. If you receive your voucher today at 22:00, you have 24h to buy your ticket and then another 24h to pay your ticket, in order to catch the fastest possible replication cycle.

Which means that if you buy & pay immediately, your payment has 48h time to arrive in order for you to catch the fastest replication, which is plenty for 90+% of SEPA transfers, making it so that SCT INST and credit cards hold no real/big advantage to people within SEPA.

28 October at 14:25 | Open on chaos.social
rixx

@jomo The fact that your order has to be 24 hours old before it can be considered for replication means that *everybody* has to wait at least 48 hours between a voucher being sent out and its child voucher being sent out, so I’d say “fewer vouchers” may still be true if your entire group doesn’t use instant payment, but “considerably fewer” possible less so.

28 October at 14:28 | Open on chaos.social
jomo

@rixx thanks for the clarification. Can you also clarify this on the page somehow? It's technically there, but I had to read it very carefully to understand. I think many people think the vouchers replicate every 24 hours when they're ordered and paid within the first 24h.

The blog post also suggests this, IMO:

> Once this ticket is paid for, a new voucher will be generated (roughly once per day[…])

Thanks for your work!

28 October at 16:01 | Open on mstdn.io
rixx

@jomo I had really tried to be as clear as I can – but if you have suggestions on how to improve the wording, I’m happy to add them:
28 October at 16:22 | Open on chaos.social
jomo

@rixx My confusion is probably based on what people said when the first vouchers were sent out before reading it myself. The (current) state of the text is actually quite okay tbf.

If you append something like "It takes at least 48h for a voucher to replicate" to that FAQ it should be very clear and you don't have to think about the details that much.

Nitpicking now, but the page says 24h old and *older than* 24h further down. Might add to confusion, although not technically relevant.

28 October at 16:45 | Open on mstdn.io
Juli Jane

@jomo @rixx

"AFAIK the delay for SEPA is always 1 bank working day"

Not in my experience. I sent money in the evening and it was there next morning, even from one country to another. And I have sent money in the morning and it arrived in the afternoon. Some banks are slower, though.

Many already support SCT Inst, and soon they must. From 2025/01/09 all banks in SEPA must support receiving and from 2025/10/09 they must support sending. So at most another year until the ordeal is over.

28 October at 22:11 | Open on ruhr.social
rixx

@feuerrot The delay also goes for regular SEPA transfers from outside Germany, e.g. from Austria, transfers are often not same-day. Probably could clarify that this is talking about any transfers from outside Germany.

28 October at 11:53 | Open on chaos.social
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