Gregory's ServerI've been thinking a lot about what a friend pointed out - that mixed gendered spaces often quickly become male-exclusive because men tend to have much higher tolerance for arsehole behaviour than women, so it only takes one dodgy person to destroy a community as all the women basically leave. Once such a community has heavy male bias it can hardly recover, and its lack of representation means it can hardly succeed in any social, cultural or technical aims. Rings true for the extraordinarily bad gender balance in free/open source software in the context of the Stallman report.
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 @Koefoed @yaxu this happens a lot in alternative music-based subcultures like the rave scene - and when there is partydrugs and alcohol involved the behaviour of some men even leads to violence and bloodshed - so if the subculture is already in a legal grey area this unsurprisingly attracts clampdowns from law enforcement and licensing authorities..  @yaxu I'll take this thesis one step further and remove gender from the equation. People who tolerate bad behavior will stay and don't tolerate will leave regardless of gender. However, as long being a bully and pushing people around is expected or supported for males (since we think it's what makes a man a proper man), these spaces will be dominated by males. Pushy, aggressive males. ...and this kills all collaboration and good things which come out of it.  @yaxu that's a really interesting way of putting it that I've not come across before, “men tend to have much higher tolerance for arsehole behaviour than women” It makes a lot of sense, and I can see it acted out regularly (although never on the scale of RMS, thankfully) 🤔 @WiteWulf Yes it's a subtle shift of thinking but super useful I think. Tolerance separating people rather than bringing them together.  @yaxu I fear it will be the same with companies which recently stopped DEIA programmes (Jack Daniels, Ford, Harley Davidson etc). They will be toxic dumpster fires for everyone who is not dya cis het male and abled bodied.  @yaxu I think it's more of men are socially allowed to be such arseholes. If a woman acts that way, she's typically chastised or pushed out. Showing other women they are merely tolerated there. Eventually leaving men and a small handful of women willing to put up with it for one reason or another  @yaxu @Threadbane yes when the barrel is perfectly able to throw out the 'bad apple', it's the barrels fault  @yaxu I don’t think it’s that men have a higher tolerance for assholes, it’s that men have a higher tolerance for assholery that is male-coded. The gossipy asshole who pushes people out by turning the group’s consensus is tolerated much less than the “genius” asshole who is happy to take credit for things others have done, while pushing people out and ensuring that other genius-assholes don’t arise to challenge them. Men tolerate the “great man” myth; women know the hidden work. Your friend’s observation about men is a variation on Gresham’s Law, which originally said bad money drives out good but applies to everything. Bad roommates drive out good roommates, for example. Has anyone coined a law for the tendency for social systems to degenerate to their lowest common denominator? Other than the second law of thermodynamics, I mean.   If you are in a ‘movement’ or group or political party that is mainly composed of men…maybe think why. Libertarianism is an example: Almost entirely male. "I've been thinking a lot about what a friend pointed out - that mixed gendered spaces often quickly become male-exclusive because men tend to have much higher tolerance for arsehole behaviour than women, so it only takes one dodgy person to destroy a community as all the women basically leave." |
@yaxu this is a really good point! I’ve never thought about that particular perspective before but it seems to true once I think about it.