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Top-level
 @pixx @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs Aluminum would force us to recycle it, and that can actually be done given enough energy. (Which we don't have yet because the fossil fuel industry has been sabotaging nuclear for the last half century, but that's another thing.) 14 comments
 @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs (That said, currently, recycled aluminum is extremely freaking cheap. the co-op near me sells 100% post-consumer recycled aluminium foil, for instance :) @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs (unfortunately, the labelling says it saves 14,000 _watts_ of electricity vs nonrecycled aluminium foil, which makes it hard to trust any of their claims /me finds contact info to explain the difference between energy and power to a company that probably won't care @pixx @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs Aluminum: the cost of energy would set the point between reuse and recycling. Plastic: I understood it was possible but not particularly efficient. @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs (Disclaimer: Speaking from memory, it';s been a while since I researched this) The tech for recycling plastic is pretty efficient, the problem is that you need different methods for each type of plastic, and automated sorting isn't good enough. Which means recycling plastic effectively requiers paying people to sort out the various types and put them in the right places, and if they mess up, it can contaminate the entire batch. @pixx @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs That's it, contamination is the big issue. That and unwillingness to employ enough humans to do things right. @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs Which puts plastic recycling in an interesting place: If you do it at home, it can be cheaper than fresh material (e.g. if you grind up PLA from a failed 3d print), by a _lot_. But it scales _really badly_. Aluminium recycling is just recycling: people give you cans, melt them down and make aluminium to sell back to the can factory. (Which is still dumb, since... it's already a can.) plastic recycling, you receive a billion different materials! @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs Thing is, PET recycling is easy. HDPE recycling is easy. PLA recycling is easy; ABS recycling... I think is easy too but I'm not sure, actually. But if someone gives you a trash bag full of "plastic," and you have to figure out what's in it?? The PET recycling can be profitable. The HDPE recycling can be profitable. The PLA recycling can be profitable. Plastic recycling can still struggle. That said, plastics recycling _has_ been scaling, slowly! @pixx @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs Let's hope it gets better. Here in Argentina there were attempts to integrate garbage recyclers from the informal economy into the process but I don't know how far it went. @pixx @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs This year, 3 plastic recycling companies went bankrupt in the Netherlands because plastic from the fossil fuel industry is cheaper (thanks to tens of millions in subsidies). @src_esther @pixx @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs Sorry, every time I read or hear about oil subsidies I think about the US military (also a great customer). @src_esther @pixx @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs Do you mean the € 40 billion per year in tax cuts for the fossil fuel industry here in NL? Or do you mean extra tens of millions for the plastic? Because the latter wouldn't surprise me at all! @Heidentweet @pixx @angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs I meant the first but the latter wouldn't surprise me either. |
Gregory's Server
@angelastella @eniko @gabrielesvelto @cederbs If we used aluminum at the rate we use plastic, I don't think that we'd be able to do it cheaply at all?
(And: plastic recycling is also entirely _possible_, for the most common plastics, both technologically and economically.
The biggest problem is that it requires sorting/collection, which makes it a lot harder+more expensive; aluminum can just get melted.)