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Evan Prodromou

"Every ActivityPub server should accept, save, and forward objects and activities with any type in the Activity Vocabulary."

#EvanPoll #poll

Anonymous poll

Poll

Strongly agree
53
33.1%
Somewhat agree
54
33.8%
Somewhat disagree
35
21.9%
Strongly disagree
18
11.2%
160 people voted.
Voting ended 22 September at 19:05.
21 September at 12:47 | Open on cosocial.ca
28 comments
Evan Prodromou

If you don't understand this statement, skip the poll.

21 September at 12:47 | Open on cosocial.ca
John Mark :blobcatverified: ☑️

@evan Having read the raging debate recently, I feel I can have an opinion here.

21 September at 16:44 | Open on freeradical.zone
FinchHaven

@evan

That's pretty condescending

One can understand the statement, and not support it

Which includes not supporting a poll that, tacitly, supports the current background behind the statement

#MaxiFedi

22 September at 0:58 | Open on infosec.exchange
Evan Prodromou

@FinchHaven I agree, one can understand the statement and not support it.

If someone doesn't understand the statement, that's OK. It's a very specific issue for a very small group of developers and architects working on the ActivityPub network. People shouldn't feel bad if they don't understand.

Also, I don't think you're correct in your assumptions about my biases.

22 September at 2:46 | Open on cosocial.ca
Evan Prodromou

@FinchHaven I think most people on the Fediverse could understand the issue if it was explained clearly, but I think that would reveal more of my thoughts about the issue than would be fair for a poll. Also, I just finished writing a book about ActivityPub, so I want to take a weekend off from explaining the protocol!

22 September at 2:47 | Open on cosocial.ca
CartyBoston
eeeee

Re: "Every ActivityPub server should accept, save, and forward all objects and activities with types in the Activity Vocabulary."

Interesting, I can't see the poll. So it seems the platform I am on (nodeBB) is not displaying that. Is the poll an object or activity?

21 September at 15:14 | Open on community.nodebb.org
Григорий Клюшников

eeeee, the poll is a Question object. Posting a poll is thus Create{Question}. In general, the way polls work in ActivityPub is mildly cursed. You vote by posting a Note with one of the options in the text in reply to the Question.

22 September at 10:48
Evan Prodromou

@grishka @eeeee No, it's just `Question`. Question is an activity type.

22 September at 14:35 | Open on cosocial.ca
Григорий Клюшников

Evan, it may be an activity in the vocabulary, but I'm saying how it's used in the microblogging part of the fediverse

22 September at 16:16
eeeee

Re: "Every ActivityPub server should accept, save, and forward all objects and activities with types in the Activity Vocabulary."

@julian can you see the poll?

21 September at 15:14 | Open on community.nodebb.org
Cody Bromley

@evan Slightly agree. It reminds me of email chains where formatting or images get lost as it passes through different servers, but unlike email, the poster's server retains the source vocab and can make it available to any server request. Ignoring unused vocab makes a ton of sense for the server admins paying those storage and bandwidth bills. Instead, retrieving unabridged vocab for forwarded activities from the source server adds an extra layer of abuse protection and data integrity.

21 September at 15:48 | Open on mstdn.social
infinite love ⴳ

@evan i wish there was a "stronglier agree" option

21 September at 17:16 | Open on mastodon.social
infinite love ⴳ

@evan by which i mean: i'd go even further and say that activitypub servers should store-and-forward anything that has as:to/cc/audience. and as:actor so you know it's an activity.

21 September at 17:18 | Open on mastodon.social
Evan Prodromou

@trwnh I'm with you, although I think extensions should use multi-typing to indicate that it's an activity (`"type": ["myns:Foo", "Activity"]`)

21 September at 17:54 | Open on cosocial.ca
infinite love ⴳ

@evan whatever the mechanism i do think isActivity() needs to be specified within mainline AP. i know we have a primer page but having it in-spec would be really useful too.

something similar for allowing Actor to be declared on objects with ldp:inbox and as:outbox could also be useful if we *really* wanna avoid duck-typing. although i am not as opposed to duck-typing as you are…

the definition of as:Actor would specifically be “my ldp:inbox dereferences to a Collection of Activity or subtype”

21 September at 18:18 | Open on mastodon.social
infinite love ⴳ

@evan in other words if something is an Actor then it is expected that you can send Activity notifications to it as opposed to generic LDN, and crucially, ***it will handle those activities with side-effects defined in activitypub***

it therefore may also make sense to define Actor and isActor() at the spec level

21 September at 18:22 | Open on mastodon.social
Stefan Monnier
skryking

@evan what about content that is blatantly illegal?

21 September at 18:55 | Open on infosec.exchange
Evan Prodromou

@skryking interesting question! I had not read the poll that way. I was thinking in particular of the many types of activities like `Listen` or `Travel` that aren't well supported by some servers.

21 September at 19:04 | Open on cosocial.ca
Evan Prodromou

@skryking I updated the poll to make it clearer.

21 September at 19:05 | Open on cosocial.ca
Tassoman

Ok thanks, now I have better understanding.

In theory, ActivityPub means any. But I voted somehow disagree simply because nowadays the reality is different.

The most used software is the slowest to implement diversity.

21 September at 23:55 | Open on orwell.fun
pasta la vida

@skryking @evan I think they mean: "your server doesn't understand a @bivouacwiki poll or a Lemmy downvote, still forward it?"

a mastodon post is a text box, or a pixelfed image is just an image slot. what you put in it could be legal or illegal.

21 September at 22:56 | Open on tech.lgbt
Paul Schoe

If that is the case, how can instances differentiate?

I became a member of a particular instance BECAUSE they do not accept, save, and forward everything.

The policies of my instance form the guardrail that protects my mailbox.

@evan
#Safety #Personalisation #Differentiate #Instance #Fediverse

22 September at 0:49 | Open on mastodon.world
Evan Prodromou

@paulschoe So, you joined an instance because they don't allow the `Travel` activity?

22 September at 2:49 | Open on cosocial.ca
Paul Schoe

I wasn't aware that my instance stops posts on 'Travel' activities, but I will check 🤣 .

I came to my instance .world based on online recommendations, and I appreciate that they screen contact requests and inform me when they think that it might not be what I want.

@evan

22 September at 7:51 | Open on mastodon.world
Григорий Клюшников

It's very impractical imo. I treat ActivityPub more like an API, so it only makes sense to process activities that make a semantic sense for your particular implementation. I don't even store the original JSON I receive.

It would make sense for a "dumb" server that implements C2S ActivityPub and doesn't have much of its own UI/UX, though.

22 September at 10:15
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