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christian mock

@weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon I agree it's most easily explained by a charger issue, but how should the car detect that, given that it's not grounded itself? I think the charger would have to have not only L and N reversed, but also PE connected to L, plus probably no RCD.

5 comments
Comrade Weez

@cm N & earth should be at at the same potential (or mV close to it). If it isn't, the car should disconnect and go into a fault mode and put an alarm notice somewhere (dash cluster? Display screen?) This is what they pay the EEs big bucks for. @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon

christian mock

@weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon What the car sees on L, N and PE might not be the same as the outside world does, assuming sufficiently malicious wiring in the EVSE. And without a stake in the ground you can't really determine whether the wire labeled "PE" is at that potential.

Comrade Weez replied to christian

@cm There's an earth reference in the charge connector, which should be sufficient to determine if L&N are correct or reversed. Most device design simply trusts that the sparky who wired the residence didn't cock it up. But it is possible to detect such a fault and protect the user from it. At the price of an EV, I would rather expect that feature would be there, it's not a toaster. @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon

Vlad 🇺🇦🦀 replied to Comrade

@weezmgk It’s rapidly approaching a toaster if you stand barefoot and touch the wheel while charging in this situation :/

Zimmie

@cm @weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon That’s my suspicion. The adapter probably doesn’t properly detect L/N swapping and only checks to see if N and PE have potential. Wire it sufficiently incorrectly and it puts hot on the output. Or maybe the car assumes N and PE are the same thing and has the chassis connected to N (or to both).

As for how to detect it, once you have power, it’s pretty straightforward to make a DC reference and check for AC potential between that reference and each input line. You can’t confirm whether a given line is actually earth versus something with DC bias, but you can tell whether AC exists in the absence of significant load. Think like running a set of non-contact voltage testers. Then only engage the relays (or IGBTs or whatever else you may want to use) to draw from the feed if you don’t detect AC on the PE line or N line.

@cm @weezmgk @Habrok42 @momo @das_menschy @Wifiwits @cgudrian @LilahTovMoon That’s my suspicion. The adapter probably doesn’t properly detect L/N swapping and only checks to see if N and PE have potential. Wire it sufficiently incorrectly and it puts hot on the output. Or maybe the car assumes N and PE are the same thing and has the chassis connected to N (or to both).

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