Gregory's ServerI am begging software projects to release programs as tarballs or plain old static binaries. I don't know what a Helm chart is. I am not installing an entire Kubernetes cluster. Docker breaks LXC and firewalls and is constantly breaking for mysterious reasons. I would rather submit myself to hours of `./configure && make && make install` frustration than try to hack through the endless hellscape of containerized deployment systems.
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 @aphyr this is one reason i tend to like Go projects more than i like the Go language: the deployment artifact is often one (1) statically linked binary. put it wherever.  I was the sysadmin responsible for containerized cloud orchestration platforms at my job in 2003, back when it was called Apache Tomcat (TM) @aphyr You joke but I have repeatedly observed that projects like knative appear _determined_ to reinvent Java EE/DCOM, which in turn reinvented CORBA, which in turnβ¦  People often complain about how terrible working with CORBA is; but, the reality is it's no worse than working with Xlib. You know what people did with Xlib? They didn't throw X11 out; no, they wrote XCB to replace Xlib. So why would anyone throw away CORBA? They should have replaced the typical ORB architecture with a new IIOP binding. I guess people just didn't think of it back then. @aphyr The main evolution appears to be what concerns get placed on either side of the developer/administrator line, and honestly, there is some useful insight into changes in organizational norms there.  @aphyr if people would just release build instructions like this, any packaging, be it debs, rpms, Docker or LXC containers, would be easy to create from there.  @aphyr Iβm generally fine with OSS providing their own Helm chart, but for gods sake please also publish the compiled binary somewhere as wellβ¦ I never wanna pull a binary out of a container again xD   @aphyr I hate having to manual build, and keep forgetting there's checkinstall (I think?) that makes it build a .deb installer so you can uninstall easier. @aphyr is this a symptom of people wanting to deliver one binary instantiation of their stuff that works on the widest possible array of Linux instantiations? As a hobbyist C++ developer, I have NO idea how I could release something that would ever be useful to non-developer Linux server admins, because there's no way I'm going to navigate a massively heterogenous set of distro runtime environments, packaging ecosystems, hardware architectures, etc. For Windows I just provide one .exe file!   @HunterZ @aphyr I mean, none of this is your problem as the software author. Your job is to be the upstream source. Responsibility for making software available starts with you, making it available as a source tarball to distro maintainers (and anyone else who wants it), who then make it available to system admins, who then make it available to users. If the users are their own system admins, and they can't install a package from source, that's a "them" problem. @mos_8502@studio8502.ca @HunterZ@mastodon.sdf.org @aphyr@woof.group you can also get away with statically compiling or shipping your app with every library needed to run your app, and targetting an old enough version of glibc, it usually does the trick  @HunterZ @aphyr do you support windows XP? 7? 10? Just 11? Which vcredist do you need? Do you expect and handle UAC? If you look at C# now we need to ask talk about .NET runtimes. (and a few years ago we had to worry about 16 vs 32 vs 64 (with PAE in there to be annoying to)) - since 32bit has finally essentially died off that's better, but watch out for ARM - are you building a universal binary? Don't confuse simple with used to it. @aphyr Finally! Someone understand "a solution" is not "the solution" for every problem. @latexdoll @aphyr honestly meson/ninja are pretty friendly/easy to use (compared to cmake) ahah  @aphyr @aphyr it is rather annoying. Even having pulled through uml/openvz/xen/kvm/jails/custom kernels/qemu/UTMβ¦ it took me a while to get the hang of Docker, I'm still not entirely sure about it. @aphyr i get the feeling some of these are good examples of "just because you canβ¦β @aphyr this is just people cargo-culting Google (Borg) again. Containers make sense if you don't know where they will run, you just throw them into your 10000 machine cluster and you get a result back. However, 99% of us aren't Google, and yes, this is mostly frustrating and Helm is a huge pile of steaming manure.    |
if you release a .deb that installs cleanly on stock debian stable I will kiss you sweetly while whispering words of affirmation into your ears