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Sören Hentzschel

@kapsiR @mcc The web must enable business models, otherwise the open web would be in acute danger. Many websites would die or only be accessible behind paywalls. That is a fact. And for advertising to be effective (and for vast amounts of money not to be wasted), it is important to be able to display advertising based on interests. So far, this has only been possible by tracking users. And this is exactly what Mozilla wants to improve - for the benefit of users. 2/n

13 July at 7:01 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mozilla.social
10 comments
Sören Hentzschel

@kapsiR @mcc Mozilla has also clearly stated that they are currently still in the phase of designing the corresponding standard. The first step is to find out whether PPA provides data that is so good to work with that tracking is no longer necessary, or whether further improvements are required. The data cannot be collected if it has to be explicitly activated. 3/n

13 July at 7:02 | Open on mozilla.social
Sören Hentzschel

@kapsiR @mcc But an opt-in would not make sense in the long term either. The technologies that are misused for tracking are also enabled by default. If the better method is not enabled by default, it would not be used - and we will still have the tracking of users. This is also totally clear. 4/5

13 July at 7:04 | Open on mozilla.social
Sören Hentzschel replied to Sören

@kapsiR @mcc To claim that Firefox is worse than Chrome, the product of the world's largest advertising service provider and tracker, when it comes to privacy issues is almost unbeatable in terms of absurdity and can only lead to the conclusion that this is an attempt to troll. 5/5

13 July at 7:04 | Open on mozilla.social
Craig Nicol

@s_hentzschel @kapsiR @mcc advertising based on interests doesn't have to mean tracking users everywhere.

If I'm reading a news site about football, there's a good chance betting ads will be relevant. If I'm reading about interior design, there's a good chance I'll be interested in paint or wallpaper.

No need to track, and if I'm on that page I'm already actively engaged in that area of interest. I don't need to see betting ads when I'm reading about Ukraine and Gaza.

13 July at 9:52 | Open on octodon.social
Sören Hentzschel

@craignicol @kapsiR @mcc I don't think you understand how advertising works. Advertising does not magically fit in with the content of the site and the general interests of the user. So far, there is no alternative to tracking that enables the same or at least almost the same conversion rates. And as long as this is not the case, tracking will happen. To stop tracking, we need alternatives that work just as well but are better for privacy, like - hopefully - PPA.

13 July at 10:16 | Open on mozilla.social
Craig Nicol replied to Sören

@s_hentzschel @kapsiR @mcc what I described is exactly how print advertising worked. Car and car parts companies advertised in car magazines, beauty companies advertised in beauty magazines, and advertisers had no way to track readers.

A couple of online news sites do the same thing and found working directly with relevant advertisers in their country was more profitable than outsourcing to Google.

"Advertising needs to track users" is a line used by tracking companies to convince their customers (advertisers) not to go elsewhere, and to embrace the dashboards that make it look as though conversion is a science that can be tested and refined, but completely misses context.

And let's not forget the number of times Meta, Google and others have outright lied about engagement to encourage, variously, video content, highly opaque political campaigns, AMP and performance benefits, promotion of far right and other hateful content, promotion of paid content over organic, and several other anti-competitive and anti-consumer initiatives

@s_hentzschel @kapsiR @mcc what I described is exactly how print advertising worked. Car and car parts companies advertised in car magazines, beauty companies advertised in beauty magazines, and advertisers had no way to track readers.

A couple of online news sites do the same thing and found working directly with relevant advertisers in their country was more profitable than outsourcing to Google.

13 July at 22:25 | Open on octodon.social
Sören Hentzschel replied to Craig

@craignicol @kapsiR @mcc Comparing print and web doesn't make any sense at all. And it doesn't make sense to have this discussion if you don't understand how online advertising works. I am out of this discussion. Someone who does not have a basic understanding cannot be reached with arguments.

14 July at 6:10 | Open on mozilla.social
Sören Hentzschel replied to Sören

@craignicol @kapsiR @mcc@mastodon.social And for the record: I know how online advertising works and how important targeting is. In my company, we manage more than a million Euro advertising budget for our customers every year. So I know very well that your assumptions are just wrong. But it's always the same with people who think they know everything, even about things they have nothing to do with. It's a shame.

14 July at 6:20 | Open on mozilla.social
Inhabitant of Carcosa :emacs:

@s_hentzschel @kapsiR @mcc I strictly disagree that the web must enable business models. I strongly prefer a web that destroys business models.

13 July at 20:09 | Open on emacs.ch
Sören Hentzschel

@carcosa @kapsiR @mcc This is by far the stupidest thing I have read today. It is a fact that in a web that does not allow the possibility of generating revenue, many websites could not exist or consumption would have to be paid for.

13 July at 20:15 | Open on mozilla.social
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