Gregory's Server@RustyBertrand I always assumed the author got some of that, so I should pay and support them.
But that arrangement - it's shameful :-(
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51 comments
 @jillL @deborahh I would contact heads of research and libraries at fancy universities for information I couldnt find. They would point me in the right direction and sometimes even get all excited about it too. People like to talk about their specialties. @RustyBertrand Yes, you're probably right. And, I guess the worst thing they can do is say "no".  @RustyBertrand @jillL I already posted this elsewhere, but we love when people ask us about our research. We got into academia to spread knowledge, and we fucking adore explaining things at length. The thought that someone cares about what we have to say is intoxicating. @orionkidder  @jillL @tkinias @RustyBertrand @orionkidder I feel like there’s two archetypes of scientists, nerds who are motivated by a deep love for their field and nothing else, and are just really excited to talk about it, and weird elitists who are obsessed with status, their reputation, other people’s reputation, ect @RustyBertrand @enby_of_the_apocalypse @jillL @tkinias I've known more than a few old white men who are also excited nerds, and I've known a couple of white women in academia who were awful. I'm just saying. Edit: I should have phrased that much more carefully! Let me say: you are not wrong, as a generalization, but there are significant exceptions. @orionkidder @tkinias @jillL @RustyBertrand old white people in general. Tho I feel like the women tend to be at least slightly more likely to not be awful. I guess the more privileged someone is, the more they tend to be obsessed with prestige @enby_of_the_apocalypse @tkinias @jillL @RustyBertrand That's it exactly. Nobody is inherently good or bad based on their like demographic. Proximity to systemic power, however, has a strong tendency to make people *terrible*. @orionkidder @enby_of_the_apocalypse @tkinias @jillL Yep. The thought stayed on my mind. It's the way they were brought up. Some are amazing. Not all old white men are the absolute worst. But the absolute worst are all old white men. @RustyBertrand @jillL @tkinias @orionkidder I think it’s so much more than just upbringing @enby_of_the_apocalypse @jillL @tkinias @orionkidder It's like a cult leader thing. Ego+power+access. Are they evil, delusional, or true believers? @RustyBertrand @enby_of_the_apocalypse @tkinias @jillL Very much this. Yes.  @orionkidder @RustyBertrand @jillL Then why do academics prop up these hyper-profitable publishers? So many people in this thread pretending that this is all an external evil, but it is completely in the gift of academics to get together and stop throwing public money in the black hole of these publishers' astonishingly high profit margins. @RustyBertrand @orionkidder @jillL It's possible for academics to get together and change the system they're working in - some fields are a lot better than others. @yaxu @orionkidder @jillL @RustyBertrand @orionkidder @jillL Yes, it's a scam, academics know this, but still choose to support it, rather than join those organising against it.  @RustyBertrand @deborahh @jillL statistically odds are they're autistic and you just asked them to infodump... You're not bothering them, you're bothering anyone who may be supervising them lol @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand they generally get excited that someone outside their field cares enough to want to read their paper. But there are also pirate sites like sci-hub that you can use without feeling guilty, now you know where the journal fees are really going @sofiav @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand 100% Of my interactions with researchers went like that. They're absolutely delighted to share their work whenever possible  @cypnk @sofiav @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand I’ve had academics print up and internationally mail me copies of rare unpublished manuscripts for free. They get SO stoked when the general public asks them questions y’all like don’t even know if you haven’t done it. They got into the profession to share knowledge! Most of them would actually way rather talk to random folks who are highly interested in the subject than lecture to bored 18 year olds.  @sidereal @cypnk @sofiav @jillL @RustyBertrand why mail? Are they not allowed to share an electronic copy? @deborahh @sidereal @cypnk @sofiav @jillL @RustyBertrand I can't speak for them, but a lot of humanities profs are not super technical, especially the over-sixty crowd. There's no rule against sharing our work. It's not worth enough money for anyone to care. I mean, it's only the most advanced knowledge we've come up with this far. It's not an episode of the Frasier reboot or something. :) @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand Don't feel reluctant. I agree that it is always a nice day when someone sends me an email asking about my papers. When I was a PHD working on a book coauthored with my supervisor, I remember asking about the royalties arrangement, saying that they seemed unfair towards us, and being admonished that "I should not be thinking about money"... lol, that's our culture... :( @caranha @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand Hooray for neo-feudalism, i.e. "You will own nothing and be happy*." 😏 * - because by some sort of hard-to-define Divine Right, we always have 'owned' the storehouses that the fruits of your labor are deposited into and always will @MySideIsHumanity @caranha @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand In theory, we do it as part of our workload and we get paid via promotion, but of course, that only ever really applies to the mostly white men who were promoted, and today, adjunct exploitation has made made it fifty times worse. All the more reason to talk to us. If you're not getting paid, showing an interest in our work is the second best thing. (I do have a permanent position now, to be clear.) @orionkidder @caranha @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand Glad to hear you were able to get to a place where you feel safe. 🤝 I guess it kinda shows that even tho I'm happy with where I am, I'm sick to death of a system where Mr. Creosote* tells the restaurant staff "What's wrong with you? You should be grateful you get paid." Which 'trickles down' until it's eventually "What's wrong with you? You should be grateful you get the crumbs of my plate scraps." * - Monty Python skit, but TW: nauseating @jillL @deborahh @leighms @RustyBertrand some journals provide the author with a shareable link. Otherwise there’s always scihub 😉 @leighms @jillL @deborahh @RustyBertrand  @deborahh @RustyBertrand To the contrary, often authors *also* have to pay to actually be able to publish…  @krono @RustyBertrand @deborahh I’ve never come across THAT outside vanity press. @fuzztech @RustyBertrand @deborahh "Different academic publishers have widely varying levels of fees, from under $100 to over $5000, and even sometimes as high as €9500 ($10851) for the journal *Nature*." says https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_processing_charge#Other_publishing_fees @stuvx @deborahh @RustyBertrand Most, yes.  @deborahh @RustyBertrand nope. Moreover, reviewers (who actually make the scientific paper something different from a blog post) are also not paid. Scienitific journals are probably the most prominent and unknown example of a modern monopoly. @deborahh @RustyBertrand we get no money from publishing or conference presentations, and we often have to pay publishers and always have to pay for conferences. ☹️ yes, please. Ask us for copies of our articles.  @davad @deborahh @RustyBertrand Sometimes part of the job description. When I worked at GSFC I sometimes had to PR pre-pubs or pre-conf.  @deborahh @RustyBertrand I was on a paper published in Nature last year. For making the PDF open-access on its website rather than charging people to read it, Nature asked the lead author to write a check for $11,000. This is why astronomers have the arXiv open preprint server instead. @michael_w_busch @deborahh I wish I could do a Harlan Ellison rant on command "Pay the writer" @michael_w_busch @RustyBertrand @deborahh I mean it’s springer, so of course they squeeze as much money out of scientists as they can. |
@deborahh @RustyBertrand I always feel reluctant to bother the author directly. But, $35 per paper gets expensive very quickly if you are doing any sort of serious research.