Gregory's ServerMy son was reading about Marine Le Pen and remarked, “the funny thing about holocaust deniers is that they never seem happy that it didn’t happen”
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23 comments
  To all French holocaust deniers - I have a one word answer: Drancy France was the only country conquered by the Nazis which fully cooperated with the Final Solution, rounded up their Jews and sent them away to the death camps.  The Anschluss is buried in so much doublespeak, I simplify matters by saying the Austrians welcomed Hitler with cheers. There was a bit of resistance to the Nazis, but quickly suppressed and of no consequence. @mattdm @tuban_muzuru @bojacobs Engelbert Dollfuß and his gang were just a Nazi flavour that didn't go too well with Adolf's taste buds and vice versa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss#Assassination  @tuban_muzuru @bojacobs Poland has seen 3 million of their Jewish citizens murdered, whereas in France, it was ~75k in both Vichy and the occupied zone, and most of them were of non-French nationality (not that it matters, but hardly "full compliance"). Overall survival rate of Jews in France was over 75%, one of highest. Compare that to Romania, which murdered almost 400k Jewish people without even being occupied by Germany. 75k is absolutely an atrocity, but what you're saying just isn't true. What happened at Drancy? Did the Poles actively participate in the rounding up and sending the Jews ( and of course, themselves, the Romany and many others ) to the death camps? Have it your way. France's abject capitulation to the Nazis, the Milice, it may well be there were other governments who connived with the murder of the Jews - but Drancy was unique. It was French. @tuban_muzuru I'd have to go read up but I thought the Dutch had a pretty grim record. (And here in Ireland we have nothing to be proud of, neither re anti-Semitism nor re welcoming Jewish refugees from the rest of Europe) I suppose all the conquered nations bowed the knee to Hitler. Fuck it, so I'm wrong about the rest of Europe. I remember as a child in Paris, in the little playground at Notre-Dame-des-Champs, among the noise of play, one boy shouting at another - "salle Juif" . He didn't mean anything by it, just a petty insult. Funny how moments of that sort stick with me. @tuban_muzuru Depressing, isn't it? I remember similar from Dublin in the 1980s, unconsciously anti-Semitic jibes from kids who I'm quite sure had no idea what they were saying. But I never heard an adult take umbrage now that I think of it. @bojacobs Le Pen is a disrupter. She doesn’t believe half the guff she says. It’s done for effect and to keep her profile in the media. She keeps reinventing herself. The whole family are in politics, holding positions at national, regional and EU level. Now, her father was an old hard line fascist. All credit to her she booted him out the party. But she is far right and sadly is building support and it is very feasible she could win the Presidential Election in 2027.  @bojacobs My grandfather spent part of his childhood in an internment camp *in France*. Noting that he was not Jewish, and this is not the same as the holocaust. But, like, France was occupied by the nazis. There are people who saw this stuff happen with their own eyes still alive that you can ask about it.   |
@bojacobs that is a really good point...!