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Prof. Sam Lawler

The only feeling I have about starship is dread.

They want to use that to launch batches of HUNDREDS of Starlinks at once. And guess where all those Starlinks will end up? The pieces that don't make it to the ground will end up in our upper atmosphere, screwing up the stratosphere, the ozone layer, who knows what else because SpaceX isn't required to do any environmental assessments of this.

Shit. Maybe a good time to post this essay I wrote yet again: theconversation.com/an-astrono

6 June at 14:25 | Open on mastodon.social
42 comments
Graupel

@sundogplanets Do you have opinions about cubesat? We're launching one with my group at some stage in the future and I love what we'll be able to do but simultaneously am on the fence.

6 June at 14:28 | Open on scholar.social
Prof. Sam Lawler

@firn Cubesats are really not the problem in orbit - they are tiny. The new Starlinks will be the size of Ford F150s - 1250 kg each.

6 June at 14:29 | Open on mastodon.social
Graupel

@sundogplanets Ok, I wasn't sure. ESA launch guidelines are pretty strict to. It has to have an orbit in which it will burn up at 5 years of deployment too.

I thought really tiny bits of space debris could achieve velocities where they too might become super dangerous.

6 June at 14:35 | Open on scholar.social
Prof. Sam Lawler

@firn They definitely can, and if we have 100,000 cubesats that will be bad. But right now this is not the main thing I'm worrying about!

And the 5 year lifetime thing is fine when you're talking about small masses - Reentry of Starlink satellites and Falcon rocket bodies is already exceeding natural influx of metals from meteorites. What will that do to the atmosphere? Only a few people are studying that now

6 June at 14:39 | Open on mastodon.social
Michael Porter

@sundogplanets @firn …Not to mention the danger from 50 kg chunks of debris raining down on us…

6 June at 15:55 | Open on ottawa.place
Mike McCaffrey

@sundogplanets @firn To me, it seems the environmental cost of launching the satellites into orbit and the waste associated with all the booster rockets and such far outweigh whatever environmental impact of the satellites themselves burning up.

6 June at 20:24 | Open on wandering.shop
it takes a village

@mikemccaffrey @sundogplanets @firn depends what it's doing to the ozone layer. It could be very concerning indeed, theoretically much worse.

6 June at 21:39 | Open on climatejustice.social
Prof. Sam Lawler

@djuuss @mikemccaffrey @firn Just a quick reminder: I am studying this, I actually know what the numbers are. The pollution from planned reentries is indeed worse than the pollution from launches. And it's already being measured: pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas

6 June at 22:02 | Open on mastodon.social
it takes a village

@sundogplanets @mikemccaffrey @firn

What's the 'oh my gosh' tl;dr? i'm not a scientist reader

6 June at 22:04 | Open on climatejustice.social
it takes a village

@sundogplanets @mikemccaffrey @firn so far i'm getting: there's a thin mist of metal in the upper atmosphere already that is precipitating slowly like a snowglobe. Lead wise, don't worry about it, because the US is still pumping out 700 tonnes of lead from chimneys a year (???!What?)

And you're expecting the metal clouds to descend on the poles with.. unknown effects.

6 June at 22:16 | Open on climatejustice.social
Eye

@firn @sundogplanets

ESA also has started the #ZeroDebrisCharter and is endeavouring to get others to sign up.

👍

#ZeroSpaceDebris
#SpaceDebris

6 June at 18:07 | Open on mastodon.social
Eva Chanda

@sundogplanets @firn
No matter how tiny, if there are zillions of them, it's still a problem though, right?

6 June at 14:38 | Open on mstdn.ca
Prof. Sam Lawler

@echanda @firn Yes. But currently there is more than an order of magnitude more Starlinks than cubesats.

6 June at 14:40 | Open on mastodon.social
Rasmus Lindegaard
Cy
I don't think the ozone layer is particularly at risk, since satellites p. much all have to use solar powered electric motors, but space travel definitely is. The more orbital debris they put up there, the harder it is for satellites to stay up there without getting battered into scrap. So Musk is effectively ruining space for money, and what do we the people get out of Starlink?

Slow Internet.
I don't think the ozone layer is particularly at risk, since satellites p. much all have to use solar powered electric motors, but space travel definitely is. The more orbital debris they put up there, the harder it is for satellites to stay up there without getting battered into scrap. So Musk is effectively ruining space for money, and what do we the people get out of Starlink?
6 June at 14:40 | Open on fedicy.us.to
donzo42

@sundogplanets
Musk Space X MUST be brought to heel ...😎

6 June at 14:40 | Open on mastodon.social
Eva Chanda

@sundogplanets
We need to force all politicians with decision-making power on this issue to read your article, Clockwork Orange style.
#SpaceJunk #BanStarlink #KesslerSyndrome
6 June at 14:52 | Open on mstdn.ca
M

@sundogplanets Not loving that one day we won't be able to look up without only seeing junk.

6 June at 14:55 | Open on mastodon.social
David Mitchell :CApride:

@sundogplanets

Feeling depressed… even with all the evidence we have from the last century or two, we still treat each new thing as if our environment is infinite until *after* we have wreaked it and are trying to pick up the pieces. Sigh.

6 June at 14:56 | Open on mstdn.ca
Dyptre

@sundogplanets I remember the first time I saw a starling launch chain. I thought my brain was melting as I saw the 50 something satellites slowly appear and drift across the sky in a straight line. It ruined any chance of shooting Astro in that portion of the sky for a good 30min.

30min can be a short time, or, and entire event when it comes to Astro photography.

I'm terrified not just of the space clutter, but the impact on our ability to appreciate the night sky. #Starlink #Astronomy

6 June at 15:13 | Open on mastodon.social
Michael Porter

@sundogplanets The dude who wants us to be an interplanetary species is doing his best to fuck up the one habitable home we have…

6 June at 15:56 | Open on ottawa.place
_noelamac_

@sundogplanets

Ironic isn’t it? He wants humans to be interplanetary and at the same time greatly contributes that humans aren’t even eligible to be planetary.

#billionaires

@MichaelPorter

6 June at 17:15 | Open on spore.social
Michael Porter

@_noelamac_ @sundogplanets Well, I’d send him to Mars if I could 😉

6 June at 17:18 | Open on ottawa.place
Michael Busch

@MichaelPorter @_noelamac_ Planetary Protection prohibits us from inflicting Elon Musk upon the universe.

Also; SpaceX has no actual plans to send anything or anyone to Mars.

Which is fortunate, since Elon Musk's vision of human Mars missions is "a bunch of people will probably die" in his own words.

6 June at 21:40 | Open on mastodon.online
Michael Porter

@michael_w_busch @_noelamac_ Hmm, but there's no *Solar* Protection protocols in place... 🤔

6 June at 22:52 | Open on ottawa.place
TanyaKaroli

@sundogplanets Oh god, I had no idea they were planning to use it to launch even more starlinks. Damn!

6 June at 16:10 | Open on expressional.social
Cheradenine Zakalwe

@sundogplanets@mastodon.social And that's not even considering the risk of a Kessler cascade.

On the BRIGHT side (well, not Starlink bright, future bright), if it all works out, ElNo will go to Mars.

6 June at 16:38 | Open on plasmatrap.com
ShadSterling

@sundogplanets at some early point I thought Starship was going to be used to increase capacity for moon missions and mars missions and things like making the next space telescope even bigger than the James Webb. We could augment or replace the ISS with larger modules, even learn how to use orbital greenhouses to provide oxygen and food. But instead of that, it’s going to be used to bomb the surface, pollute the atmosphere, and block first the view and then access to space.

6 June at 16:46 | Open on mastodon.social
Allan Chow
Alex ☕🇨🇦

@sundogplanets the inevitable Kesler Syndrome and the environmental impact of unplanned reentry of thousands of satellites alone are yikes.

6 June at 17:14 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Prof. Sam Lawler

@Alexjgriffith Well, the planned reentry of thousands of satellites is the problem - they only have lifetimes of 5 years

6 June at 22:05 | Open on mastodon.social
Nicole Parsons

@sundogplanets

One item that's not getting enough attention is the military uses for space junk.

When metallic chaff was developed to foil target seeking torpedoes in nuclear-powered submarines, a similar concept is applicable to nuclear warheads.

These Starlink satellites are deliberately designed to have short lifespans. Their engineering has been co-opted by Russia.

Elon Musk's loyalty is to himself and his wallet, the rest of his loyalty is murky at best.
nytimes.com/2024/05/24/technol

1/2

@sundogplanets

One item that's not getting enough attention is the military uses for space junk.

When metallic chaff was developed to foil target seeking torpedoes in nuclear-powered submarines, a similar concept is applicable to nuclear warheads.

These Starlink satellites are deliberately designed to have short lifespans. Their engineering has been co-opted by Russia.

6 June at 18:38 | Open on mstdn.social
Tölva Prophetess Of Numbers

@sundogplanets I'm constantly but subtly terrified of a Kessler Cascade.

How many balls can you juggle? If it's in the tens of thousands you've overdone it.

6 June at 20:04 | Open on neurodifferent.me
Leta_Darnell

@sundogplanets Why are we trusting someone who can't cook a poptart with satellites?

6 June at 20:06 | Open on mastodon.social
Galactic Stone 🇺🇦

@sundogplanets - One more reason that Musk is garbage. Let's put him and his simps into permanent orbit.

6 June at 20:53 | Open on mastodon.social
Meerlala
Extinction Studies

@sundogplanets What if we had legislation on the books that NASA or the FAA or the EPA had to do an environmental assessment themselves before they could grant approval? And that it had to be rigorous, complete and public? And that specific enviro standards had to be met before approval could be granted?

6 June at 21:24 | Open on hcommons.social
Prof. Sam Lawler

Muting this thread now because the mansplaining ratio has gotten way too high!

6 June at 22:08 | Open on mastodon.social
Stu

@sundogplanets I'm never quite sure whether to bring attention to those posts by challenging them, or block and move on. I can't believe that one guy just hand waved away your field of study.

I know you may not see this but just wanted to drop a supporting reply.

6 June at 22:34 | Open on hachyderm.io
Cat West

@sundogplanets Totally understand and totally agree.

6 June at 23:33 | Open on mastodon.social
SpaceLifeForm

@sundogplanets

And screwing up the view for ground based astronomers.

6 June at 23:53 | Open on infosec.exchange
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