Gregory's Serverautotools be like
checking for number system base ... base 2
checking for signed integer system ... twos complement
checking for galaxy ... milky way
checking for laws of the universe ... standard model
 126 comments
 @wyatt8740 @unnick Because someone c&p'd a bunch of garbage rather than writing their own .ac file... 🤦  @dalias @wyatt8740 @unnick and why is it that people c&p a bunch of garbage rather than writing their own .ac file, Rich? @whitequark @wyatt8740 @unnick Because the whole thing is fairly opaque, uses an obscure language, and the docs on how to make decent use of it are unofficial and hard to find especially after the burning of search... No intent to blame anyone just theorize on how things got this way. @dalias @wyatt8740 @unnick honestly even ten years ago I found it rather difficult to figure out how to write .ac files @dalias @whitequark @wyatt8740 @unnick no it uses three different opaque languages at the same time, in the same source file  @whitequark @dalias @wyatt8740 @unnick @jannem @dalias @wyatt8740 @unnick it's one of the most obscure and user-hostile pieces of software in the world; of course it _is_ difficult, especially if you don't already have the skills for it  @parzivalwolfram @whitequark @jannem @dalias @unnick Yes, I also prefer autotools/autoconf 100% for almost everything. @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @wyatt8740 @unnick i use cmake because i support windows as a first-class system, mainly if your software requires cygwin or mingw to build on windows i will fucking build it for webassembly instead and ship like that @whitequark @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick I genuinely prefer MSYS/mingw @wyatt8740 @whitequark @jannem @dalias @unnick yeah i've never had a good experience with VS, even VSC, or even VC/VC++ lol, though i also have constant issues with C#/.NET programs and anything adjacent to it but people online tend to tell me it's somehow user error if a .NET program spits out nonsensical, never-before-seen error messages then just die. i only write in python on windows just to avoid all of those headaches. @parzivalwolfram @wyatt8740 @jannem @dalias @unnick I shipped software that built on both MinGW and VS; I don't mind the compilers (either), I mind the garbage around them built by people who think fork() is peak API design @whitequark @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick fork is quite annoying, i agree @wyatt8740 @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick shell scripts are for automating admin tasks. write your build system in a real language, such as CMakeLists.txt (still more real than bash)  @whitequark@mastodon.social @wyatt8740@tech.lgbt @parzivalwolfram@infosec.exchange @jannem@fosstodon.org @dalias@hachyderm.io @unnick@wetdry.world real language and seeing CMakeLists.txt threw me for a spin. I fucking hate writing cmake but I hate using anything that's not cmake 😭 @whitequark @wyatt8740 @jannem @dalias @unnick question: what if csh from 1989 is the only scripting language available to you, and there's no compilers available on a target system except K&R as? i'm working on a project where this is the entire issue, and it's... not fun. this is the precise case where that "consider using bash to build GCC because some cases in other shells make the ./configure script take literal days" warning actually happens lol @parzivalwolfram @whitequark @jannem @dalias @unnick i was about to mention csh, actually. Lol. There are so many things worse than a bourne shell @parzivalwolfram @wyatt8740 @jannem @dalias @unnick I bring a c89 single file wasm interpreter, then see step 1 @wyatt8740 @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick I don't care about Visual Studio but if your software requires bash I will rm the entire build system and redo it using something made by competent people @whitequark @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick Your opinions are frankly wrong. @wyatt8740 @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick I'm objectively correct and you know it! @whitequark @wyatt8740 @jannem @dalias @unnick Bash extensions can be very helpful, but it is big and sometimes critically buggy, I do agree on those common points. @parzivalwolfram @whitequark @jannem @dalias @unnick a non-bash bourne shell is preferable imo @wyatt8740 @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick the only thing worse than a bourne shell is cmd.exe @whitequark @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick Powershell is worse @wyatt8740 @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick never heard of poweshell @whitequark @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick it's been around since windows xp. I'm astonished if you never have @wyatt8740 @parzivalwolfram @jannem @dalias @unnick (I thought it was an obvious bit >.>) @wyatt8740@tech.lgbt @whitequark@mastodon.social @parzivalwolfram@infosec.exchange @jannem@fosstodon.org @dalias@hachyderm.io @unnick@wetdry.world Honestly both of them are horrendous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE8IAxM_BhE (and the follow up to how to secure against such attacks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x97ejtv56xw) but what really got me was the finale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mej5L9PE1fs I hate cmd.exe and powershell.exe they are the antichrist and i am not joking.  @wyatt8740 @unnick  @unnick VAX/VMS 3.0 only had partial support for thermodynamic entropy. Best not to make assumptions and just keep the extra test around.   @norootcause Not as total a given as you'd expect, even in 2024! Many non-x86 consoles used non-IEEE754 floats! @larsbrinkhoff @unnick That’s why I always say “octet” instead of “byte”, so that the PDP-10 programmers don’t get confused.  @joelvanderwerf @tarmil @joelvanderwerf @unnick I think it means that Autotools is able to find a constructive proof of AC, which might indicate that Autotools is not consistent. But we already knew that ;) @unnick @Gopiandcode @unnick Yep. Douglas Adams did just that in one of his Hitch Hikers Guide To the Galaxy books — but damned if I can remember which one…   @unnick Are you saying you don’t routinely test on a 36-bit middle-endian BCD architecture? @unnick these tests are for me, the dude running Solaris 7 with a busted libm and broken includes because `fixinclude` in all compatible gcc versions just breaks everything. it's me, the dude who accidentally gave Jia Tan one (1) system from 1998. on one hand, i've learned a lot about the stack below everything, since i've had to build it myself. on the other, i'm going to die of stress three years from now.   @unnick These jokes date back at least to the 1990s. I can recall a program which went like: checking for bass ale in -lfridge ... no  checking for nearest star... Sol checking for gravity ... Err you have gravity and adhere to to standard model, but these are incompatible to one another. Please pick one or unify them to continue...  @unnick Mine also checks for the universe for consistency, and UID, and fails if it's not 0 (Universe MPI Master).  So much legacy that it still thinks you might be running it on an obscure mainframe from the 70s that uses an even more obscure C compiler ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   @unnick I tried to make autoconf 2.70 stop checking for stdlib.h and was *immediately* confronted by bug reports from people using autoconf to build code for a C89 freestanding environment, in which stdlib.h is not guaranteed to exist.        |
@unnick
checking for FORTRAN77 compilerI'm just building a GTK color picker in C, why do you need this?!?