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Lars Wirzenius

Since the sustainability of open source is a hot topic due to the xz debacle, and so many people keep suggesting asking for donations, I feel I need to post this. I'm not involved with xz, but like it's maintainer, I live in Finland.

15 April at 16:16 | Open on toot.liw.fi
22 comments
Lars Wirzenius

In Finland, appealing to the public for donations requires prior permission from the police. Getting the permission is not automatic. Selling stuff far beyond a reasonable valuation counts as asking for donations. Even just saying that you accept donations can get you sued. It doesn't matter if you do it as a private person, as a company, or as a non-profit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_Co

15 April at 16:16 | Open on toot.liw.fi
Lars Wirzenius

I don't know why this law makes sense. Please don't ask me to explain it.

15 April at 16:17 | Open on toot.liw.fi
gaytabase

@liw i'm guessing it's to stop begging on the street and the law is atrociously written

15 April at 16:19 | Open on social.treehouse.systems
Sephβ€½ 🌳 🐦 🐟 πŸ””

@dysfun @liw Laws against begging on the street are also not okay.

15 April at 16:40 | Open on queer.party
Lars Wirzenius

@melivia @dysfun This is not a law against begging on the street, and is not used for that.

15 April at 16:42 | Open on toot.liw.fi
bmaxv

@liw That's pretty interesting.

It makes sense to me, but I'm not going to speculate. I'm sure there are sources on the internet that explain the hows and whys.

15 April at 16:45 | Open on noc.social
orva

@liw AFAIK it was created during 90s economic downturn (or was it the earlier one?) to combat fraudulent money gathering scams that ruined quite a many lives. So it is remnant from times when freelancing and other solo working options weren't really a thing. Should have been removed from law a long time ago.

15 April at 16:56 | Open on fosstodon.org
orva

@liw Well maybe not removed, but reworked. It IS nice that trying to run a pyramid scheme in Finland will automatically throw you into jail

15 April at 17:02 | Open on fosstodon.org
Markus Peuhkuri

No, it is way older, of course the law has been renewed every 20 years or like. For long it has been controlled if in exchange of donation you would get a change to join a draw lottery or get some flower pin (which value is way less than selling price).
@orva @liw

15 April at 18:18 | Open on mastodon.social
Jouni SeppΓ€nen

@orva @liw At least since 1980: finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/kum, and that one replaced a previous law from 1939 that I cannot find online. Pre-EU Finland used to be a pretty paternalistic place.

The upside is that Wikipedia stopped showing the donation-drive ads in Finland.

16 April at 13:38 | Open on kamu.social
Lars Wirzenius

As a Finnish open source developer, this means that in practice, I can't ask for donations, whether directly, or via GitHub Sponsors or Patreon, or even an offshore organization that does the asking for you, is not an option. The risk is too real.

I also don't accept donations, to make the situation absolutely clear.

I am, however, willing to be paid for actual work I do. I can invoice via my own company.

(end)

15 April at 16:17 | Open on toot.liw.fi
Wilfried Klaebe

@liw So... If someone told some finnish open source maintainer to bill them for one month of maintenance work on libwhatever, that would totally not be accepting a donation by that maintainer?

15 April at 17:35 | Open on chaos.social
Lars Wirzenius

@wonka I am not a legal expert, but if the work is real, and the compensation is justifiable, it should be OK.

If the work doesn't actually happen, or the compensation is wildly too big, it can get tricky.

15 April at 17:50 | Open on toot.liw.fi
Elena ``of Valhalla''

@wonka @liw would they need to have their own company (and thus be unable to do that if they are already working as an employee for somebody else)?

(I think that would be the case in my country, which is *not* Finland)

16 April at 5:07 | Open on social.gl-como.it
Β­

@liw Wait, what?
I guess I must close my ko-fi now, I only received 3€ from there, so it's not worth the risk πŸ˜…

16 April at 4:02 | Open on lor.sh
Lars Wirzenius

@bemyak It's complicated. You may want to ask a lawyer or other expert.

16 April at 4:25 | Open on toot.liw.fi
Nemo_bis 🌈

@liw @bemyak You can file a request online at poliisi.fi/en/small-scale-mone . I believe you'll have to specify a limit and a duration, for example 100 € and end of year, and then file a report after the end of the period.

Let me know if they reject your request, I can then put you in contact with the lawyer who won the recent case against the police on the matter (elokapina.fi/news/press-releas ).

But yes, probably easier to close it. :)

@liw @bemyak You can file a request online at poliisi.fi/en/small-scale-mone . I believe you'll have to specify a limit and a duration, for example 100 € and end of year, and then file a report after the end of the period.

Let me know if they reject your request, I can then put you in contact with the lawyer who won the recent case against the police on the matter (elokapina.fi/news/press-releas ).

16 April at 5:18 | Open on mamot.fr
Adolph
@liw This doesn't happen in Spain, but the tax code is so brutal it's not worth it asking for donations.
16 April at 5:15 | Open on stereophonic.space
lions & tamsyn & bears, oh my!

@liw wow... that's shockingly awful!

15 April at 16:18 | Open on dragon.style
gaytabase

@liw πŸ˜¬β€‹

>

and the second time when Finnish Police Board targeted Wikimedia Foundation for raising funds

15 April at 16:18 | Open on social.treehouse.systems
Teemu Kalvas

@liw I just sat in court hearing the public prosecutor's arguments about lying by omission when asking for said prior permission. Every time I'm in court the amount of tortured logic the prosecutor goes to exceeds all expectations.

15 April at 16:57 | Open on kamu.social
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