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All posts yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦's posts Post Back to profile
yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

it's time to fork #Firefox and turn it into a cooperative-owned project.

arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/0

cooperative membership is the element missing from FLOSS.

fuck the non-profit's faux neutrality when in truth it's just a broke doppelganger of the top-down structure of the corporatist kleptocracy.

make the project a cooperative where members --users and developers-- get to vote on the future of the project with their paid memberships and contributed labor.

14 February at 22:34 | Open on mastodon.social
84 comments
Bernie the Wordsmith

@blogdiva Is this what happened with OpenOffice and KeePass? I recall there was something similar...

14 February at 22:36 | Open on masto.es
yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

@berniethewordsmith not exactly. OO was forked into LibreOffice but as far i can tell it is not a cooperative. same with Keepass and KeepassXL (or whichever is the fork am using, LOL)

14 February at 22:38 | Open on mastodon.social
Maxi 9x 💉

@blogdiva @berniethewordsmith LibreOffice is just a normal FLOSS project, they don’t have a 'company' behind it.

14 February at 23:24 | Open on chaos.social
yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

@frumble @berniethewordsmith ummm, no. it's my understanding the apache foundation manages it.

14 February at 23:25 | Open on mastodon.social
Maxi 9x 💉

@blogdiva @berniethewordsmith That’s OpenOffice.org, on the Apache Graveyard.

14 February at 23:26 | Open on chaos.social
Maxi 9x 💉

@blogdiva @berniethewordsmith Okay, LibreOffice has "The Document Foundation", but this isn’t any more corporate than let’s say KDE’s noprofit.

14 February at 23:39 | Open on chaos.social
jake
@blogdiva @frumble @berniethewordsmith Sorta? So OpenOffice was ditched off to Apache after Sun was bought bought by Oracle. LibreOffice was a fork started at Novell and maybe Redhat?? due to the fact that OpenOffice has been neglected since Sun started it. That was then made into a foundation (Document Foundation) similar to Mozilla. That foundation runs both LibreOffice and the ODT.
(I was somehow tangent to all of this as I was helping support the Mac ports all those years ago)
@blogdiva @frumble @berniethewordsmith Sorta? So OpenOffice was ditched off to Apache after Sun was bought bought by Oracle. LibreOffice was a fork started at Novell and maybe Redhat?? due to the fact that OpenOffice has been neglected since Sun started it. That was then made into a foundation (Document Foundation) similar to Mozilla. That foundation runs both LibreOffice and the ODT.
14 February at 23:53 | Open on posts.jacobhaddon.com
Katja ｢Amethyst｣
Maxi 9x 💉

@VulpineAmethyst @blogdiva @berniethewordsmith Contributing ≠ the project is mainly developed in corporate structures

15 February at 8:25 | Open on chaos.social
Katja ｢Amethyst｣

@frumble @blogdiva @berniethewordsmith

I am not sure I would reduce their involvement to just 'collaboration', given they have blocked features found in their productised LO. 🤷🏻

15 February at 8:28 | Open on social.treehouse.systems
David Forsyth
gutocarvalho@bolha:~$ :idle:
yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

@gutocarvalho we would need to fork them cuz they don't want to deal with any governing body/structure that takes money for the project. that's not sustainable... and i say that as i type from my Librewolf browser for Linux.

14 February at 23:45 | Open on mastodon.social
gutocarvalho@bolha:~$ :idle:

@blogdiva I like the idea of a strong open core for browsers, an open engine, an open standard, independent, focused, it could be a project handled by Linux Foundation or even W3C.

And another iniative using this core like LibreWolf or Watefox.

We need to focus on the engine first, and a primary implementation of the engine user/community centric.

15 February at 0:12 | Open on bolha.us
jbz
Funes

@blogdiva are there any examples of software owned/maintained by a cooperative? Would love to look into some as case studies.

14 February at 23:23 | Open on infosec.exchange
高文偉
Funes
Zack Weinberg

@funes @ltlnx @blogdiva I would not recommend using Debian as a model; their decision making processes historically have led to endless flamewars and the rule of the loudest. (Their *development* process has historically worked very well at shielding users from the screaming on the mailing lists — until fairly recently I would have recommended Debian over all other Linux distros, for any use — but this is no longer true, and I think it mainly worked as long as it did because most of the time, most individual DDs could ignore each other and the screaming. That's not gonna work for a monolith like a web browser.)

@funes @ltlnx @blogdiva I would not recommend using Debian as a model; their decision making processes historically have led to endless flamewars and the rule of the loudest. (Their *development* process has historically worked very well at shielding users from the screaming on the mailing lists — until fairly recently I would have recommended Debian over all other Linux distros, for any use — but this is no longer true, and I think it mainly worked as long as it did because most of the time, most...

15 February at 0:14 | Open on hackers.town
trystimuli

@funes @blogdiva there’s loomio - source code on github. most tech worker cooperatives seem to do consulting.

another model might be a multi-stakeholder cooperative, which would also include people who use the software as owners/members, but i don’t have any ready examples of that model.

15 February at 0:02 | Open on fedi.imu.li
left-wing math nerd
justforfun

@funes @blogdiva
Funny you should ask, I just learned about @Codeberg today and I hope they can weigh in on their structure in more detail it does more closely resemble a co-operative than a non-profit. I also like that they are transparent in how much funds they have to continue operations (12 years) and that all seems to be member supported. I often find that folks are critical when opens source projects have fees instead of relying 100% volunteer effort; I don’t think that’s sustainable.

15 February at 3:12 | Open on fosstodon.org
left-wing math nerd

@justforfun @funes @blogdiva @Codeberg they don’t charge for use of their service.

They take donations and have a €24/year membership fee to become a voting member docs.codeberg.org/getting-star

15 February at 6:50 | Open on mastodon.sdf.org
Maxi 9x 💉
Boud

@blogdiva
Realism or a pipedream?

"The turnover of the largest three hundred cooperatives in the world reached $2.2 trillion." [1]

"Cooperative businesses are typically more productive and economically resilient than many other forms of enterprise, with twice the number of co-operatives (80%) surviving their first five years compared with other business ownership models (44%) according to data from UK." [1]

"Mondragon ... has [been running] since 1956." [1]

[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperat

@blogdiva
Realism or a pipedream?

"The turnover of the largest three hundred cooperatives in the world reached $2.2 trillion." [1]

"Cooperative businesses are typically more productive and economically resilient than many other forms of enterprise, with twice the number of co-operatives (80%) surviving their first five years compared with other business ownership models (44%) according to data from UK." [1]

14 February at 23:36 | Open on framapiaf.org
Murilo Trigo

@blogdiva 100%

Direct worker control of the products of their labour or bust

What browser do we use now?

14 February at 23:43 | Open on mastodon.social
Thomas Gideon :cmdln:
EthicalTaxProfessor

@blogdiva

I've used Firefox and Netscape for well over 20 years, yet the threat of including AI in Firefox is moving me to consider the alternatives.

14 February at 23:46 | Open on mastodon.social
yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

@DrGeof been using Librewolf for a couple of years now. i'd like to see the fork follow Librewolf's changes.

14 February at 23:48 | Open on mastodon.social
EthicalTaxProfessor

@blogdiva

I use Librewolf as well. Librewolf for work, Firefox for personal.

'Tis a great browser.

14 February at 23:49 | Open on mastodon.social
Jesse Cail

@DrGeof @blogdiva I may give Librewolf another spin. It was a bit too restrictive for me. Admittedly, I didn't invest a ton of effort into it. I use Firefox with Privacy Badger from EFF, Firefox Focus, and sometimes TOR.

15 February at 2:23 | Open on infosec.exchange
Oliver (FKK positiv 🏖️)

@jesse_cail Still the same. Edit the LibreWolf cfg instead of the users cfg because otherwise LibreWolf resets whatever you decide with every restart and every update.

15 February at 8:07 | Open on die-partei.social
Bill Marshall

@blogdiva @DrGeof Been a Firefox user since it first appeared but now I dread every update in case they've screwed with the layout again. Does Librewolf allow you to have tabs where you want them that look like tabs?

15 February at 3:49 | Open on mastodon.scot
Chookbot

@blogdiva Very disappointed to read about what they're doing. Been a loyal user for many years. Now what?

14 February at 23:50 | Open on theblower.au
AnthonyJK-Admin

@blogdiva

Gotta remember:

FOSS capitalism is still capitalism.

Just because it's "free" doesn't mean there's not a cost.

And, ultimately, just like the #Pornocalypse, the Rapture of Enshittification comes for everyone.

#WarKeyCracks

14 February at 23:53 | Open on mastodon.redgarterclub.com
jlo

@blogdiva Librewolf is an option. Arkenfox. Mullvad Browser (Tor without Tor).

Some options luckily.

14 February at 23:55 | Open on glib.social
P J Evans

@blogdiva
I don't need AI in my browser. Or in search engines. In fact, I can't see a use for it for most purposes.

15 February at 0:08 | Open on mastodon.social
Baloo Uriza

@blogdiva I hate how much this feels like forking Mozilla to create the Mozilla Foundation all over again.

15 February at 0:16 | Open on social.tulsa.ok.us
Rich Felker

@blogdiva Obvious name: Fenix. Both a throwback to the original name, and pun on Fennec.

15 February at 0:27 | Open on hachyderm.io
Rich Felker

@blogdiva Could even make that Fennix or Fennex if it's more unique.

15 February at 1:53 | Open on hachyderm.io
M.S. Bellows, Jr.

@dalias @blogdiva Fenix was a great Twitter app. Better consult @mttvll before snaking the name.

15 February at 5:55 | Open on c.im
FoolishOwl

@blogdiva One of the big problems with Mozilla is that almost all its funding comes from Google. The speculation was that Google pays for Firefox so they can deny that they have a monopoly with Chrome. There's no way that's not going to collapse anyway. Mozilla is obviously doomed.

15 February at 0:35 | Open on social.coop
Jennifer
The Doctor

@foolishowl @blogdiva The best way to beat the opposition is to create it yourself.

15 February at 1:45 | Open on hackers.town
The Doctor

@foolishowl @blogdiva Not actually created; Mozilla predates Google considerably.

But it is highly unlikely the Firefox effort would have gotten anywhere without Google paying for it. The Mozilla Foundation certainly so.

15 February at 1:47 | Open on hackers.town
FoolishOwl
Veebs
Thomas 🔭✨
Kirsty
Thomas 🔭✨

@adminkirsty @blogdiva @jwz that looks pretty sweet, I really need profile sync tho (looks like they’re working on it)

15 February at 1:37 | Open on hachyderm.io
yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

@thomasfuchs @adminkirsty @jwz i've tried both but settled on Librewolf. i'd love to see the fork take on LW's changes. the project won't be able to *be* the cooperative fork because the developers do not want to it to be a legal entity nor take money for it. so it would have to be a fork of a fork.

15 February at 3:18 | Open on mastodon.social
A Rose By Any Other

@adminkirsty @thomasfuchs @blogdiva @jwz It looks like they're serving ads? Using Firefox, I see no ads on cricinfo.com (for example), but with Waterfox I see ads. I am running pihole on my LAN. Their FAQ makes no mention of ads, just that they make money from "search partnerships" (waterfox.net/docs/faq/#1-what-)

15 February at 3:30 | Open on hachyderm.io
Canadian Glen :mstdnca:

@blogdiva Waterfox. been around for years.

15 February at 1:32 | Open on mstdn.ca
Soul Mimic
Sibshops

@blogdiva As long as it's open source AI, I'm okay with it.

15 February at 1:42 | Open on mastodon.online
Jessie Nabein :neofox_peek_owo:

@blogdiva Would IceCat be viable at all as some kind of base? It's basically Firefox ESR just with Mozilla and FireFox branding removed/changed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceC

jessie.nabein.me/blog/consider

aur.archlinux.org/packages/ice

15 February at 1:54 | Open on wetdry.world
yes, it's me, liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

@jessienab Librewolf would be the de facto model to follow. it's degoogled AND stripped most of Mozilla's commercialized garbage.

15 February at 3:20 | Open on mastodon.social
Howard Chu @ Symas
SmashedRatOnPress

@hyc @blogdiva I loved Seamonkey for decades, until it fell so far behind that many very common sites wouldn't work with it any more. I abandoned it. I'd love to see it back up and running well again.

15 February at 3:48 | Open on mastodon.sdf.org
Howard Chu @ Symas

@smashedratonpress @blogdiva I still use it as my main desktop browser. It lags a bit on supporting sites like github but that usually catches up again. And integrated email and calendar are still killer features.

15 February at 4:25 | Open on mastodon.social
scttgrd

@blogdiva

I just made the switch to Librewolf, got all my stuff moved over with no fuss. Sad days.

15 February at 2:44 | Open on mastodon.social
Juho Mäntysalo

@blogdiva

I'm a bit surprised how many times that article calls Mozilla "company" and compares it to Google and Apple.

True, the subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation that develops Firefox is a corporation, but the word "company" (and I just checked few dictionaries) refers to organisations that try to create money, not just stay afloat.

The-end-result is that the writer misses the Foundation's goal for healthy internet as a creator of useful tools, and instead assigns more capitalist motives.

15 February at 3:01 | Open on mastodon.social
𝕸𝔞𝔩𝔦𝔫

@blogdiva Google funds Firefox. But you'd like to raise that money by charging for a FOSS browser so people can vote on the issues of a git page? Am I reading this right?

15 February at 3:09 | Open on dice.camp
Deus

@blogdiva "Mozilla is just a Foundation and operates like an NGO funded by Google", they said. They tried convincing me I could trust an NGO that's backed up by Google.

15 February at 3:21 | Open on charcha.cc
Michael Vilain

@blogdiva I've already dumped Firefox for Floorp.

15 February at 3:22 | Open on sfba.social
gz

@blogdiva
Bad move Mozilla. Being an AI-free browser would be a great selling point.

15 February at 3:35 | Open on sfba.social
Bandersnatch
Tyler K. Nothing
ziri

@blogdiva noooooooo not my man firefox 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

15 February at 5:40 | Open on ohai.social
ʟ·ɪɴᴀᴅꪮᴩᴛé 🌴

@blogdiva
Librewolf on desktop and Mull on Android.

15 February at 6:10 | Open on framapiaf.org
Wayne

@blogdiva Had anyone tried the duckduckgo browser now that is no longer under Microsoft's finger? I know they don't have extensions yet. But at least it's something you can have across your devices.

15 February at 6:23 | Open on c.im
Aleca

@blogdiva the layoffs affected VPN, Relay, Monitor, and Social. Nothing happened to Firefox, on the contrary there are new open roles for desktop developers in the Firefox team that were just created.
The layoffs are terrible and the strategy focusing on AI is indeed questionable, but Firefox is owned by the Mozilla Foundation which is a non profit and community oriented organization

15 February at 6:48 | Open on mastodon.social
Xerø

@alecaddd did you read any of what she posted?

15 February at 7:10 | Open on infosec.exchange
linuxretrobore

@blogdiva dear god something needs to be done with it. the company and the foundation have been at sea for years

15 February at 7:34 | Open on fosstodon.org
BDS 7 29

@blogdiva LibreWolf which already exists?

15 February at 7:48 | Open on todon.eu
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