Gregory's Server@kentindell @nuthatch @danluu well i guess a car that wont move is probably safe...but its hardly a graceful failure if the fall back is just to break everything
Its also a piss-poor user experience
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17 comments
 @kentindell @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu Part of safety is not pushing an update that breaks the system in the first place. Plus when an update is performed >>NOT PUSHED<<, the system verifies that it received the update correctly, checks signatures, then runs the software. If there is an error, it reverts to previous state >>WITHOUT USER INTERVENTION<< A vehicle which fails to move because the Mfg pushed software is unsafe, not unreliable.  @kentindell @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu Not really. A quick dive into forums shows that Ford has a fully embuggerred software update system, either failing to install critical updates, or bricking vehicles. There seems to be a trend of incompetent/nonexistent dealer support and a lack of concern at the Mfg level. I hadn't really thought about buying a Ford, and I've been hesitant to buy anything with push OTA update. Ten minutes of reading forums convinced me to avoid both. @johntimaeus @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu If you think it’s easy then you don’t understand the problem. Like why cars need to be parked on level ground to be updated. Or why it entails new microcontroller silicon designs. @johntimaeus @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu It’s not bricked: it needs to be connected to an authorized diagnostic tool. But clearly you don’t want to learn and I don’t want to hear uninformed opinion, so on that basis I’m muting this. @kentindell @johntimaeus @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu  @johntimaeus @kentindell @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu it's possible that they are required to brick the vehicle in the case of a failed update. Anything else could involve the vehicle running in an indeterminate state or with a known issue. Both could be liability issues Of course ideally the update shouldn't fail but that's impossible to guarantee. @Wearwolf @johntimaeus @kentindell @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu  @johntimaeus Yeah... I don't want OTA push, I don't want internet connectivity, I don't want ANY data sent to the manufacturer without explicit consent, I don't want a car that requires security updates, I don't want tons of sensors and helpers (except perhaps a camera in the back), I don't want "smart" or keyless, I don't want touchscreens everywhere. But I do want an EV. Will there be something like this in the next decade (or 25 years)? 😔 Time for a better bike.  @jesterchen @johntimaeus There is a dedicated fuse in all these cars for whatever connects them to the internet and you can look up in the owner's manual which fuse it is. Then you can take it out. I am pretty happy with our Honda Clarity. PHEV, 35ish mile range on pure electric. The gas engine is a descendent of the standard Honda 1.4L straight 4. Elegant drive model: 1 reduction gear, 1 electronically controlled clutch for main power, 2 clutches in the differential. The infotainment/display system is isolated from the operational bits. Software update requires a physical cable. @johntimaeus @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu @kentindell and if you can’t do this automatically, then schedule the updates when the car is in a workshop, with a technician who can resolve it before handing the car back. @OliverNoble @kentindell @nuthatch @danluu it depends on what the car was doing when it stopped being drivable. Its been shown multiple times that you can maliciously alter the software of a car that’s actively driving (multiple manufacturers), which means a lack of protections against changes at “bad” times @masukomi @OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu There are security threats to cars while driving eh? 🤔 I think you could be right. |
@OliverNoble @nuthatch @danluu That’s how it’s supposed to work. Safety comes first, then comes reliability.