Email or username:

Password:

Forgot your password?
26 comments
Tube🍂Time

it stopped working. 😑

weirdly, if I *release* the shift key for any reason, the program resets! it works as long as I hold it down. 😅

Tube🍂Time

but it's just the shift key on the Apple II. how cursed could that possibly be?

*opens the closet, finds skeletons*

Tube🍂Time

so the CPU data bus is muxed between the RAM data and the uhhhhhh keyboard port? that's special

Tube🍂Time

also interesting: the shift key(s) is not a normal key in that it does not generate a scan code. it only modifies the key codes generated by the keyboard matrix decoder chip. so how can my Apple IIe detect it when i release shift?

Tube🍂Time

it's a hack that people figured out on the original Apple II--you bring the shift key and tie it to the pushbutton 2 input on the paddle connector. then this became "canonized" in the Apple IIe with a motherboard jumper called X6, open by default. my IIe Platinum has this turned on by default! presumably this is the problem.

Tom Greene

@tubetime The IIe technical reference manual (1987 version) mentions that the shift key mod was made standard on platinum machines so as to enable shift+click functionality in mouse based applications

Tube🍂Time

yup! turns out the DS3 checks the paddle buttons and has them control a few other functions. mystery solved.

Tube🍂Time

i have a hunch that this hacky "delay capacitor" is preventing the card from working in my Apple II+. using 100pf just doesn't work, so i've added some machine pin sockets to make it easy to swap.

Tube🍂Time

no cap: doesn’t work
27pf: doesn’t work
56pf: doesn’t work
100pf: doesn’t work
220pf: works!
680pF: works!
1000pF: doesn't work, makes clicks and bursts of white noise

Tube🍂Time

so i think i will pick 220pf. generally i try to keep bodge caps like this to smaller values...

Rue Mohr

@tubetime so the delay needs to be what now?

---\/\/\/--+--|>o-|>o--
|
=
|
V

Tube🍂Time replied to Rue

@RueNahcMohr i never bothered to measure the delay. just found the limits with the capacitor test.

Hexxy The Grouch

@tubetime It feels like a safe guess that they are doing this to drag out timing elsewhere down the line. I guess the question would be which thing(s) need the extra delay. While not practical, I wonder if subbing in some HCT family parts elsewhere would make things better or worse. If the chips were socketed, I'd give that a whirl for the heck of it. Can you get a scope probe on any of the pins down the line for more insight on what's happening?

Tube🍂Time

@hexxy_the_grouch the delay is for the MC6844 DMA chip. presumably it makes it compatible with the 6502 bus.

Rich Felker

@tubetime At times like this I need quote toots just to add 😱 when sharing...

Rue Mohr

@tubetime ? the video circuit just pushes the cpu off to the keyboard when its using the ram?

Tube🍂Time

@RueNahcMohr naw the mux switches the CPU data bus over only when you access the keyboard port at C000.

mcc

@tubetime did you see the explanation that the reason why the apple ii didn't just have a shift key to begin with was that Wozniak was dead broke while he was designing it and couldn't afford an appropriate keyboard to test with

Tube🍂Time

@mcc pretty common for machines and terminals of the day to be uppercase only, so i'm a bit suspicious of that story.

mcc

@tubetime oh, uh. The source is Steve Wozniak vintagecomputing.com/index.php

But it *would* be accurate to say another way of framing this story is "the machine wozniak was using while making the apple ii was uppercase only, so the apple ii inherited that"

Tube🍂Time

@mcc huh, well there you go, straight from the horse's mouth. he does explain a little bit more--that he could have added lowercase but then he would have needed to fix BASIC, which he had already coded up by hand and couldn't easily redo.

Go Up