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Jess👾

@RickiTarr Another point - hunter/gatherer and subsistence farming simply CAN NOT SUSTAIN 8 BILLION PEOPLE. Hell, "Organic" and "Non GMO" farming can not sustain 8 billion people. I don't care HOW good your farming methods are, without fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides, your yields drop. A LOT.

So when you're trying to preach some "return to nature" bullshit, you're basically saying that you want a world that can only grow enough food to support 1-2 billion people. And how confident are you that you/yours deserve to be one of those 1-2 billion who are allowed to eat?

8 Dec 2023 at 16:47 | Wall-to-wall | Open on infosec.exchange
13 comments
Ricki Tarr

@JessTheUnstill Excellent point!!! It tips very quickly into fascism and eugenics then.

8 Dec 2023 at 16:49 | Open on beige.party
Jess👾

@RickiTarr There's a DEEP rot of implied racism and eugenics and hoping for "The end of the world as we know it" to take care of the "undesirables" within that community. Of course, they always figure they're going to be one of the "chosen ones" or "lucky ones" who know how to survive the collapse ...

8 Dec 2023 at 16:51 | Open on infosec.exchange
Sprung

@JessTheUnstill @RickiTarr love this thread.

It gets right to the heart of what has always bothered me about these 'prepper' types. They believe they will be chosen and that most of the rest of us will die because we are somewhat 'useless'. A core belief of fascism.

8 Dec 2023 at 17:03 | Open on c.im
Thomas Sobieck 🐘

@rightsprung @JessTheUnstill @RickiTarr I love the podcast "Live Like the World is Dying" because it is a prepper podcast that is exactly the opposite of what you describe. They are anarchists that advocate for community preparedness.

A common line is something to the effect that the best thing you can do to survive a disaster is to have a friend with you, and having a community makes it so much better.

8 Dec 2023 at 17:06 | Open on hachyderm.io
Kalshann

@JessTheUnstill @RickiTarr
All of these points, but this especially! It always conceals in-group extremism, by it racism, misogyny, totalitarianism. And the whole idea hits something like three of the points of fascist ideology.

8 Dec 2023 at 17:05 | Open on mastodon.social
Jargoggles

@RickiTarr @JessTheUnstill
From what I've seen, everyone who promotes eugenics seems to think they'd be exempt.

Let's ignore the fact that it *always* gets abused in practice or the fact that if you're selecting for high IQ, you're already starting off with a flawed premise that discriminates based on socioeconomics, not actual potential.

Do you have any family history of congenital illness? Predisposition to health problems? Congrats, you've signed you and your family's death warrant.

@RickiTarr @JessTheUnstill
From what I've seen, everyone who promotes eugenics seems to think they'd be exempt.

Let's ignore the fact that it *always* gets abused in practice or the fact that if you're selecting for high IQ, you're already starting off with a flawed premise that discriminates based on socioeconomics, not actual potential.

8 Dec 2023 at 18:08 | Open on mstdn.social
Jess👾

@jargoggles @RickiTarr
Yeah ... I mean, MY best idea for ensuring my/my loved ones' survival is to work to make sure that as many people as possible in my community can survive. Because if most or all of us are surviving, then it's pretty great odds I'm in the group of people surviving.

Once you're saying you're willing for most folks to not make it, the odds of you/your loved ones being the one of the ones who make it are a whole helluvalot lower...

8 Dec 2023 at 18:26 | Open on infosec.exchange
Jargoggles

@JessTheUnstill @RickiTarr
That's a great point. When you allow the idea that some people's lives are worth more than others, you introduce cracks in the social contact. If it doesn't cover all of us, without exception, it becomes a matter of debate. What could undermine a community more thoroughly than a disagreement about who the community will protect and who it won't?

Even just having that discussion makes everyone less safe.

8 Dec 2023 at 18:38 | Open on mstdn.social
Jess👾

With all of our knowledge and science, there's literally no good reason why anyone should ever not have enough to survive. We just suck at getting it distributed equally and fairly because of greed.

How about, and I know this is a mind blowing concept, but rather than trying to pick who lives and who dies, and prepping for a world where lots and lots of people die, we build a world where we don't HAVE to pick who lives and who dies.

Because everyone lives.

Yes, even the people you don't like and who don't like you.

When you start from the position that allowing large amounts of people to die is considered an "acceptable loss", you've ALREADY lost. You've shifted everyone into the scarcity mindset of "I gotta stab everyone else in the back to make sure I get mine".

You START the problem solving process with the fundamental that each and every person lives. That they all have shelter, food, water, medicine. You don't even get to begin to discuss who gets a second helping until everyone has had a first helping.

@jargoggles @RickiTarr

With all of our knowledge and science, there's literally no good reason why anyone should ever not have enough to survive. We just suck at getting it distributed equally and fairly because of greed.

How about, and I know this is a mind blowing concept, but rather than trying to pick who lives and who dies, and prepping for a world where lots and lots of people die, we build a world where we don't HAVE to pick who lives and who dies.

8 Dec 2023 at 19:15 | Open on infosec.exchange
argv minus one

@jargoggles @RickiTarr @JessTheUnstill

If only people with no health problems were allowed to live, there wouldn't be any people. Humanity would be extinct. The number of people who pass that filter is a big, fat zero.

Besides being extremely immoral, eugenics is also self-defeating and completely divorced from reality.

8 Dec 2023 at 18:35 | Open on mstdn.party
Chris Petrilli
DELETED

@JessTheUnstill @RickiTarr In my summation, two things really need to go away.

1) rugged individualism. Like it or not, we live in a society, and this attitude of, "I got mine," is ultimately self defeating.

2) rejection of science. I think this one explains itself and you have already covered superbly.

And of course, all the propaganda around both of these issues. But I think it goes without saying that propaganda needs to DIAF.

8 Dec 2023 at 18:40 | Open on infosec.exchange
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