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Manawyrm | Sarah

@martijn @q3k @redford @mrtick
I fail to see how this isn't terrorism!

Interfering with a states critical infrastructure (like train operations) on purpose?

What's the difference between doing this and sabotaging equipment/cutting cables (like has been done in germany recently)?

5 Dec 2023 at 14:09 | Wall-to-wall | Open on chaos.social
7 comments
Manawyrm | Sarah

@martijn @q3k @redford @mrtick

Germany has a law against this, which is pretty clear: gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__

Section 88 - Anti-constitutional sabotage
(1) Whoever, [...] intentionally causes, [...], enterprises or facilities which provide public postal services or public transportation services, [...] to cease to function [...] incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine.
(2) The attempt is punishable.

Is there something similar in PL?

@martijn @q3k @redford @mrtick

Germany has a law against this, which is pretty clear: gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__

Section 88 - Anti-constitutional sabotage
(1) Whoever, [...] intentionally causes, [...], enterprises or facilities which provide public postal services or public transportation services, [...] to cease to function [...] incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine.
(2) The attempt is punishable.

5 Dec 2023 at 14:14 | Open on chaos.social
opliko

@manawyrm @martijn @q3k @redford @mrtick There is article 254a of our criminal code (sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/kodeks-karny-16798683/art-254-a)
quick translation:

> Whoever takes, destroys, damages, or makes unusable an element of a water supply, sewage, heat distribution, electricity, gas, or telecommunications network, or train, tram, trolleybus or metro line, causing a disruption to a part of, or the entire network, incurs a penalty of imprisonment for 6 months to 8 years.

5 Dec 2023 at 16:27 | Open on infosec.town
@7

@manawyrm @martijn @q3k @redford @mrtick

Poland also has it illegal by law:

"Art. 254a. Zamach na urządzenia infrastruktury

Dz.U.2022.0.1138 t.j. - Ustawa z dnia 6 czerwca 1997 r. - Kodeks karny

Kto zabiera, niszczy, uszkadza lub czyni niezdatnym do użytku element wchodzący w skład sieci wodociągowej, kanalizacyjnej, ciepłowniczej, elektroenergetycznej, gazowej, telekomunikacyjnej albo linii kolejowej, tramwajowej, trolejbusowej lub linii metra, powodując przez to zakłócenie działania całości lub części sieci albo linii,
podlega karze pozbawienia wolności od 6 miesięcy do lat 8. "

I belive it is directly against this law.

@manawyrm @martijn @q3k @redford @mrtick

Poland also has it illegal by law:

"Art. 254a. Zamach na urządzenia infrastruktury

Dz.U.2022.0.1138 t.j. - Ustawa z dnia 6 czerwca 1997 r. - Kodeks karny

Kto zabiera, niszczy, uszkadza lub czyni niezdatnym do użytku element wchodzący w skład sieci wodociągowej, kanalizacyjnej, ciepłowniczej, elektroenergetycznej, gazowej, telekomunikacyjnej albo linii kolejowej, tramwajowej, trolejbusowej lub linii metra, powodując przez to zakłócenie działania całości lub...

6 Dec 2023 at 10:06 | Open on 101010.pl
Martijn van Dijk

@manawyrm @q3k @redford @mrtick Terrorism is a bit of a stretch IMO as there does not seem to be a political goal. On the other hand, sabotage of public infrastructure and severe anti-competitive behaviour seem rather straightforward to prove.

5 Dec 2023 at 14:14 | Open on hachyderm.io
Manawyrm | Sarah

@martijn @q3k @redford @mrtick Ah, interesting. The definition of terrorism over here doesn't specifically include political goals, just "disturbing the peace of the public" is enough to meet the criteria (as far as I can tell, NAL of course).

But yes, this is something that should be on every newspaper front page.

5 Dec 2023 at 14:16 | Open on chaos.social
Martijn van Dijk

@manawyrm @q3k @redford @mrtick Then it's just a matter of legal semantics. Either way, I think the people responsible for this should be held accountable.

5 Dec 2023 at 14:19 | Open on hachyderm.io
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