@esther @allenstenhaus on the second, I don't see how that dream is realised with or without Facebook, which was part of my confusion with the objection to Facebook. I kept seeing stuff about XMPP and thinking, but nothing killed XMPP. It was and is just niche to use jabber. People stopped using Google messages when smart phones came along, because WhatsApp was much more convenient on a phone.

Do you think, by the way, that a ubiquitous, federated commons is compatible with the fediverse being friendly and weird? It seems to me that it's not.

Maybe I have also mischaracterised what I take to be the powerful objection. It is so much that Facebook will stop things being friendly and weird, it is that they will make the fediverse commercial. Afterall the super weird have always carved out a little corner of cyberspace, be that IRC rooms or livejournal/dreamwidth. It's more that Facebook will be like Google wrt Android. We have ubiquitous adoption of a largely open OS for phones and no real control over them, plus data mining and surveillance. Is that more the objection?