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117 comments
Joseph Kanski

@reneestephen Good, well-sourced, factual citation has to be on the nose.

skua

@Tedspence @reneestephen
Anyone got a concise description for Crusty's response?

It's should have won an Oscar.

I still remember the times when The Simpsons was subversive comedy.

Surely holding up the flaws of a culture to its adolescents didn't have to result in those flaws becoming the dominant cultural paradigm?

Tut Willy 🔱

@reneestephen
As a child I spent years in the South Pacific, and on the island where I grew up that was an obscure gesture.
I also saw that same gesture used in a movie from Australia or New Zealand, I forget which now. Also in an obscure manner.

Steeve

@tutwilly @reneestephen in Turkey this gesture is an equivalent for flipping someone with your middle finger

beq

@tutwilly @reneestephen Just to clarify, by obscure, do you mean obscene?

waimus

@reneestephen We just have to ensure people that it's safe, but don't quote me on that.

Dimitri Fayolle 🧪🚲😷

@reneestephen I once had a very serious debate with my PhD advisor about this. When should we stop citing? How common is common enough that we can assume that we can take the fact for granted? We settled that techniques and knowledge routinely taught at undergrad level were considered background knowledge for the interested reader.

M.S. Bellows, Jr.

@DimitriFayolle @reneestephen It depends on the field, of course. Poets won't cite any authority besides "The Ineffable" or "that sparse and surly raven," while sociologists insist on citing a source for the alphabet before embarking on any essay that utilizes said alphabet.

Dimitri Fayolle 🧪🚲😷

@msbellows @reneestephen Chemistry has a remarkably well-conserved background knowledge that many other fields probably do not have. That makes it more convenient to determine what is expectedly widely known and what is niche knowledge. Also things like "vitamin C is a weak acid with a pKa of about 4" is not really susceptible to social constructs such as sociological theories might be, for example.

Mad Dog

@DimitriFayolle @reneestephen : I know some people who are "citation needed" freaks.

The last time it was about Ryuichi Sakamoto. I was adding the line "in 2013 he took part of the jury of the 74th Venise film festival." + (links to the 2013's page of the Mostra's festival.)

Someone took a "second citation needed." I asked him why :
"We need to know if it's relevant in his biography."

It's one of the prestigious film festival, but... it's maybe irrelevant in his carrier as film composer ?

@DimitriFayolle @reneestephen : I know some people who are "citation needed" freaks.

The last time it was about Ryuichi Sakamoto. I was adding the line "in 2013 he took part of the jury of the 74th Venise film festival." + (links to the 2013's page of the Mostra's festival.)

Someone took a "second citation needed." I asked him why :
"We need to know if it's relevant in his biography."

Dimitri Fayolle 🧪🚲😷

@maddog @reneestephen They could start by editing and/or purging the bazillions of obviously self-written, super elogious bios that come with little to no quality sourcing...

Mad Dog

@DimitriFayolle @reneestephen : It's sometimes like there's no middle way between : "keeping things untrue on Wikipedia" or "using a Wikipedia page as advertisement."
And
"asking for a double check at everythings, and biffing immediately every line that doesn't come with tones of sources."

Dimitri Fayolle 🧪🚲😷

@maddog @reneestephen absolutely, that was my point. So many pages actually need some serious editing or purging. Why being so picky about those pages that are actually fine?

James Bartlett :terminal:

@DimitriFayolle @maddog @reneestephen
I've never understood why it's inherently not OK for someone to write their own Wikipedia bio. Obviously, if it comes across as self-serving or leaves out relevant facts, then that's bad. But if someone wants to create a biographical article with as much factual basis as possible, who better to write the first draft than the subject? Historians often use their subject's personal diaries as primary sources, and that's considered totally fine.

Dimitri Fayolle 🧪🚲😷

@JamesDBartlett3 @maddog @reneestephen I do not think it is inherently wrong. Most of the time it's perfectly OK. But some Wikipedia bios are just so blatantly dishonest. Also writing about yourself does not suppress the need for references.

Ji Fu
@JamesDBartlett3 @maddog @DimitriFayolle @reneestephen right but an encyclopedia has never been a primary source, nor should it be.
QuickQuokka (#1 YiiK Fan 🥇)

@reneestephen Removed it cus it doesn't need a source

Also it's a stub, so I am going to add that in.

Brad Patrick

@DanielUsesArchLinux @reneestephen Did you really? Do you really not understand the understated humor of it? And now that joke is gone. Do you feel better about yourself for “improving” the encyclopedia? I would rather Wikipedia not be soulless.

QuickQuokka (#1 YiiK Fan 🥇)

@bradpatrick @reneestephen I understood the joke, but humor is generally not acceptable in the article namespace, and according to WP:WTC, citations are not needed for general common knowledge.

Brad Patrick

@DanielUsesArchLinux @reneestephen As this thread shows, the definition of humor and the raging debate amongst academics about what constitutes general common knowledge is subject to interpretation. I think your position lacks merit.

Brad Patrick

@DanielUsesArchLinux @reneestephen I reverted you. I don't want Wikipedia to be a soulless place. Respond on the talk page if you please.

Renée

@DanielUsesArchLinux please do not ruin the joke :(

ETA: ah, you already ruined the joke. That's disappointing. There isn't enough whimsy in the world, reconsider the act of stamping on the embers of joy vs just quietly finding something more productive to do.

sub_o

@reneestephen this gesture means to have sex in some culture.

Leonie :vf:

@reneestephen sounds like something a robot would look up to understand how human culture works

europlus :autisminf:

@reneestephen well heck, if I was the crying kid whose nose had just been gotten, I’d want more than just a placatory statement without citation, too!

R💽nflaix

@reneestephen another case of Guy Standing Sitting: *no fun allowed*, bleh

Edit: oh come on, they even removed the whole sentence!

<eleanor>

@reneestephen i am going to run around a wiki editor and teasingly chant, "got your citation!" while pinching my thumb

TheRetroSven

@reneestephen Oh, the more u know... (puts away scissors)

MolarFox :fox_happy_blep:

@BrodieOnLinux @reneestephen
The citation on the current page links to this, but this does not address the issue of the baby's nose not actually being taken

HOW CAN WE KNOW THE NOSE ISN'T BEING TAKEN?? :blobfoxlaugh:

books.google.com.au/books?id=U

Apuntes de ciencia

@reneestephen "At no point is the child's nose actually removed from the child's face." 😂

anlomedad

@reneestephen
Thanks for the utterly innocent laugh. Much appreciated.

Riley S. Faelan

@reneestephen: In some Eastern European cultures, this gesture can be a threat of violence, or just very rude.

Andy Jones

@Firesphere @reneestephen By someone posting here on this thread, who seems quite proud of doing it. :/

BarrTheFather

@reneestephen I have six sons. Don't you dare tell my youngest that I don't have his nose in a box on my table.

codl

@reneestephen what i love is that both the sentence and the citation needed tag were added by the same editor in the same edit en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?d

Athena L.M.

@codl @reneestephen This is standard practice; it's considered okay to add uncited statements that you know are true and can be cited, but you're supposed to add [citation needed] and preferably come back and add the citations later.

Athena L.M.

@codl @reneestephen And indeed the current revision now includes a citation.

Tony

@reneestephen Even though that's removed now, I'm more surprised 'I've got your nose' is an encyclopedia entry!

65dBnoise

@reneestephen
In large parts of the old world, this gesture, with the thumb pressing and passing through the two fingers in an abrupt upward motion, means "I f.ck you". It's aggressive and insulting. Not funny at all.

Von Xylofon

@65dBnoise @reneestephen And in large parts of the world, it is neither agressive nor insulting. What's your point?

I’m Tired And Everything Hurts

@reneestephen The first time I did that to my daughter, she just put her hand to her face to check her nose and then looked at me like I was a fucking dipshit.

Tassilo Horn

@reneestephen Oh, I've done it wrong all the time!

BTW, does anyone need some spare child noses? 😁

propapanda :verified:

@reneestephen

At no point is the child's nose actually removed from the child's face.[citation needed]

QuickQuokka (#1 YiiK Fan 🥇)

@theo @reneestephen I removed it, but it got added back.

There is now a new thread on the talk page of the article ( See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:I'v )

theo

@DanielUsesArchLinux @reneestephen i’m with Brad Patrick here. there’s nothing wrong with a very occasional bit of joy in a way that doesn’t in any way detract from the article.

Barry

@reneestephen one of my all time (similar) favourites is still evident in the 'list of Cetaceans' [en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o] - scroll down the 'family lists' and (a few) missing images have a placeholder: "[cetacean needed]". I sincerely hope that the last remaining gap is never filled.

Renée

@cloudhopper this is delightful!! I'm hesitant to RT this because apparently there are very diligent wikipedia editors who hate fun who would immediately rules-lawyer this small joy out of the world. Sigh.

Barry

@reneestephen ha! just enjoy it for you then. i do (o:

mndflayr :damnified: :debian:

@reneestephen This can actually happen if you mix this game with stone, scissors, paper (the scissors part of it).

G 🇮🇹

@reneestephen Dante's Inferno XXV 2, Vanni Fucci's gesture.

Marshcast

@reneestephen @carolen

"At no point is the child's nose actually removed from the child's face."

🤣

𝕭𝔢𝔫 𝕯𝔲𝔤𝔲𝔦𝔡

@reneestephen
I mean, there's probably at least two if not three or four citations needed there ;)

Pax Ahimsa Gethen

@fuzheado @reneestephen

I was just about to tag you as the killjoy who added the citation, but you beat me to it! 😉

Andrew Lih

@funcrunch @reneestephen Never have I ever felt so guilty while improving a #Wikipedia article. At least I wasn't the person who purged {{cetacean needed}} from [[List of cetaceans]]. (It was added back after consensus was established proving we can have a little bit of fun.)

John Burns

@reneestephen

That it is described in Wikipedia is humorous enough for me.

Then I think to myself - is that automated - or did an actual human put that in.

---
Then I think... Well in today's world I guess we can't rule out that someone at some time "did actually..."

Janet W

@reneestephen This is the internet content I signed up for! 😆

toxtethogrady

@reneestephen This is a taunt the Ukrainians gave the Russians just prior to the invasion. The Ukrainians still have Putin's nose...

benjohn

@reneestephen I just checked 🤣🤣 a citation has been provided!

Lindsey Wise

@reneestephen we sure have some weird interactions with babies

Atkelar

@reneestephen slightly worrying though... I mean... somebody tinks it might. And there are really weird people out there.

Maggieci

@reneestephen No children were harmed in the making of this game

The Computer Cellar

@reneestephen A citation has since been added - but I've got a bone to pick with it since the cited material does not actually prove that the nose is not removed.

Terry Grundy, FRSA

@reneestephen

*Always* to be accompanied by that fine old sing-song poem:

Sing a song of sixpence, a pocket full of rye,
Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie…

The maid was in the garden, hanging out the clothes,
When along came a blackbird and nipped off her nose!

Jigme Datse

@reneestephen Citation found? There is now a citation here...

Phil Rees

@reneestephen "This game-related article is a stub." Which seems strangely relevant.

Dr Ro Smith

@reneestephen I'm quite charmed there's a wikipedia page on this.

Adam Katz :donor:

@reneestephen Aw, somebody actually provided a citation, which isn't even valid. This post has been mentioned on the talk page as well:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:I%2

Renée

@adamhotep if this be my immortalization on the internet, I'm glad no noses were harmed in its making 😂

burak🐧💻

@reneestephen This gesture is an insult among the Turkish population lol

David Blue ※

@reneestephen ahhhhh took me so long but I fixed the link lol

AccordionBruce

@reneestephen @RussSharek
Forwarded this to a friend who says, thanks for the screenshot, because it’s already been edited out on Wikipedia

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