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Casey Reeves

But, enough about GTK. I'm now moving on to xorg and wayland.

Xorg was good. It was buggy, it was not especially secure for various things, but it worked. More importantly, it allowed the screen reader to perform relatively good.

Wayland, on the other hand, is the complete oposite. Oh sure it works for general use. But the minute you try to use mouse emulation to click on an element of the interface, be it on a website or in a program, orca crashes. Don't ask me why, I don't know. Orca is now no longer allowed to provide a clipboard, either. The excuse the wayland folks gave was security. Applications that lack a window, focused window at that, will not be allowed to use the clipboard. Well, guess what? To be able to copy the content of a window for example an error message to share it with people for assistance, one needs to focus that window. Not orca. Oh, and by the way, it's been *years* orca has had a window.

8 Jun 2023 at 8:24 | Open on tech.lgbt
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Casey Reeves

This all filled the glass of my patience pretty quickly, I do have to admit. I went through this for months. What put the figurative nail into the coffin for me was that I realized that somehow, GTK 4 programs are actually even worse on wayland than they were on xorg. The accessibility and usability degraded further! How's that possible? No clue. The very same program will behave a miniscule bit better on xorg than on wayland. Go figure that one out.

8 Jun 2023 at 8:33 | Open on tech.lgbt
Casey Reeves

So then, you might ask me, why don't you just use QT programs if they work better? Well, the fact that QT 6 is out is great, but it also cause regressions. QT is nowhere near perfect. It is nowhere as usable as gtk 2 and 3 ever were, when things used to be done properly.

That aside it seems that QT accessibility features are opt-in rather than opt-out. I could be wrong about that, and as a matter of fact, I hope I am.

8 Jun 2023 at 8:36 | Open on tech.lgbt
Casey Reeves

And, even if it was that simple, there remains the fact that wayland complicates my life even more due to the so-called security and the problems it creates for assistive technology. And I'm tired.

I'm done dealing with this. I'm done trying and trying to summon the energy to make yet another bug report and feeling like deep down it won't matter in the end. I'm officially jaded.

As of this morning, I've gone back to windows for any program with a GUI. Granted so far it is only for web browsing, as the rest of my activities are doable in console, and I do enjoy the console.

But there you have it.

And, even if it was that simple, there remains the fact that wayland complicates my life even more due to the so-called security and the problems it creates for assistive technology. And I'm tired.

I'm done dealing with this. I'm done trying and trying to summon the energy to make yet another bug report and feeling like deep down it won't matter in the end. I'm officially jaded.

8 Jun 2023 at 8:47 | Open on tech.lgbt
Casey Reeves replied to Casey

Maybe some other people will pick up where I left. Maybe noone will. But at this point, I'm done. I can't keep on damaging my own mental health for the benefit of reporting bugs that might get fixed, but most likely won't. I can't keep dealing with this. As of today, I'm done with this entire thing.

To whoever resist out there, I can only wish one thing. Good luck, and don't sacrifice your mental health for it. Don't do the same thing I've done. Please be safe, and remember that going back to windows for some thing is nothing to be ashamed of. There comes a time where open source doesn't matter and accessibility gets the priority for everyone. Mine has been reached, and then some.

Maybe some other people will pick up where I left. Maybe noone will. But at this point, I'm done. I can't keep on damaging my own mental health for the benefit of reporting bugs that might get fixed, but most likely won't. I can't keep dealing with this. As of today, I'm done with this entire thing.

8 Jun 2023 at 8:50 | Open on tech.lgbt
Mx Jookia replied to Casey

@xogium It's really depressing like that, and I'm not sure if we'll have another corporation 'let's try to get Linux usable on the desktop' moment again. Everything is moving to the web and mobile. Which means only hardcore Linux users get punished for being blind.

8 Jun 2023 at 9:35 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Casey Reeves replied to Mx

@jookia To be fair, to use Linux as a blind person these days, you do need to be a power user in the first place. But that.s for another thread...

8 Jun 2023 at 10:05 | Open on tech.lgbt
Mx Jookia replied to Casey

@xogium A lot of this makes me wonder if the current solution should be to just write applications that provide accessibility itself. Like bundling espeak in to an app, colorblind modes, etc.

It's not a pretty solution but it's becoming clear that we can't rely on infrastructure to stay accessible.

8 Jun 2023 at 10:13 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Casey Reeves replied to Mx

@jookia Nah, I doubt it. It would just lead to programs not being usable at all. Next to no dev would bother.

8 Jun 2023 at 10:15 | Open on tech.lgbt
x0 replied to Casey

@devinprater @jookia @xogium Or the ones that would would all do so differently, requiring the users to learn every program as if it were an entirely different AT stack, like switching between JAWS and NVDA and VoiceOver and different browsers and... Perhaps the mainstream understandable Linux equivalent would be being required to know how to totally use both emacs and vim without any adaptation scripts to make one feel like the other.

8 Jun 2023 at 14:25 | Open on dragonscave.space
x0 replied to x0

@devinprater @jookia @xogium And to switch constantly between those each hour depending on what you need to do

8 Jun 2023 at 14:25 | Open on dragonscave.space
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