Older Millennials and GenX have a unique perspective...

Older Millennials and GenX
have a unique perspective on the before and after world.

We use (and build) them now, but we grew up without IoT, without social media, without "smart" phones. When cameras were big and privacy was some sort of the default.

We have an important responsibility to fight for privacy rights so that younger generations will also know the freedom given by these rights.

We cannot let society
make them think this is normal and that nothing else is possible.

We must fight for #privacy for them too ✊🔒

Like 6 May 2023 at 19:10 | Open on infosec.exchange

52 comments

Juan C. Torres

@Em0nM4stodon I remember not even having a pager! I had a calling card i'd use at pay phones 😭

6 May 2023 at 19:24 | Open on universeodon.com

Baloo Uriza

@orthoheterodox "This is U.S. West, with a collect call from... 'ItsMeAndTheScoutTroopIsEarlyGettingBackPickMeUpAtTheQuartermastersShed'. Do you accept the charges?"

@Em0nM4stodon

6 May 2023 at 23:36 | Open on social.tulsa.ok.us

ThatKomputerKat :neocat_cool:

@BalooUriza @orthoheterodox @Em0nM4stodon no. :blobcatcoffee:

7 May 2023 at 0:02 | Open on oldbytes.space

Baloo Uriza

@thatKomputerKat *me, hanging up the emergency phone in the church elevator* "OK, now to kill 20 minutes."

@orthoheterodox @Em0nM4stodon

7 May 2023 at 0:33 | Open on social.tulsa.ok.us

Peter Butler

@BalooUriza @orthoheterodox @Em0nM4stodon That was a good hack

Free text messaging

Do you accept a call from “MomI’mAtSchoolAndNeedARideThanks”?

7 May 2023 at 0:29 | Open on mas.to

mike805

@Em0nM4stodon We also got a better tech education than most of the younger people. We started out with very simple computers where you had to understand how they worked to use them.

Now they have hidden basic concepts like file, directory, and process. You have to make an effort to learn those things.

6 May 2023 at 19:25 | Open on fosstodon.org

llywrch

@mike805 @Em0nM4stodon I did my time in phone support for Netscape 30 years ago. I can attest people were just as clueless about computers then as they are now.

7 May 2023 at 4:04 | Open on masto.ai

Skylar Caulfield :verified:

@Em0nM4stodon even as a zoolienal I can remember when privacy was much more of a thing.

6 May 2023 at 19:32 | Open on tech.lgbt

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK

@skymtf @Em0nM4stodon I'm Gen X and a lot of the privacy was due to our tech education, being able to find physical spaces to hang out in which had fewer linked CCTV schemes present and being careful what we said/did outside these places - we had to share access to fixed phones in locations where parents and other could easily overhear, and the first mobiles were trivial to monitor on radio scanners (but that did mean we could also monitor the cops)

6 May 2023 at 19:57 | Open on social.tchncs.de

The Doctor

@vfrmedia @skymtf @Em0nM4stodon Did yinz keep maps of pay phones and 1-800 bridges?

6 May 2023 at 20:36 | Open on hackers.town

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK

@drwho @skymtf @Em0nM4stodon In UK we'd sometimes memorise numbers of payphones near hangout spots (they usually accepted incoming calls), but mobile phone ownership was already fairly common for a young adult by early 90s (albeit with security concerns of analogue ETACS). There weren't any easy to access bridge circuits; British Telecom special service numbers (174/175 etc) were blocked from payphones (BT were quite clued up by the 90s on stopping anyone getting anything for free)

6 May 2023 at 20:41 | Open on social.tchncs.de

The Doctor

@vfrmedia @skymtf @Em0nM4stodon Mobiles were not common at all here until maybe 2005. Only reason I had one in 2k was for work because I was on call (and it was amazingly, stupidly expensive).

In the late 90's, it was not uncommon for USian companies to have conference lines through one of the big telcos; where I lived it was Hell Atlantic. The numbers were all over the place, and once you guessed an admin passcode you could set up your own conf on their account until they noticed. They more or less replaced red boxing, which had died by 1998 or so where I lived.

@vfrmedia @skymtf @Em0nM4stodon Mobiles were not common at all here until maybe 2005. Only reason I had one in 2k was for work because I was on call (and it was amazingly, stupidly expensive).

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6 May 2023 at 21:08 | Open on hackers.town

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK

@drwho @skymtf @Em0nM4stodon by the mid-late 90s most young people already had GSM mobiles and telephone calls in Britain were dirt cheap or even free (most mobile plans gave free minutes) - whole subcultures such as the rave scene, pirate radio stations were built on this access to affordable and fairly secure comms (even before the Internet became widespread, which was only from late 90s/early 00s)

6 May 2023 at 21:12 | Open on social.tchncs.de

The Doctor

@vfrmedia @skymtf @Em0nM4stodon I can't even fathom what it would be like to live in a country with so reasonable a telecommunications system.

Where I lived in 412, the rave scene was pretty much built on e-mail (if one had access), hacked voice mail boxes, and phone trees. BBSes were a small part of that and faded out around the same time BBSes did.

6 May 2023 at 22:05 | Open on hackers.town

Jeff Moe

@Em0nM4stodon

I remember when Fort Collins still had an analog phone switch!

It was during the analog to digital conversion of the phone system that the current global surveillance system was born. Manufacturers of phone systems were required to put in a back door for the government.

Many presume the current global surveillance system was born out of the 2001 attacks, but it was started a few years earlier with this legislation.

Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA)

6 May 2023 at 19:51 | Open on jebba.moe

Jeff Moe

@Em0nM4stodon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act

6 May 2023 at 19:52 | Open on jebba.moe

Cybarbie

@Em0nM4stodon These are the very people who made it happen. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

6 May 2023 at 20:11 | Open on mastodon.social

teamtuck

@Em0nM4stodon I’m teaching my son to be careful online. Most people make a huge mistakes by freely posting pics and such on Facebook and think nothing about it.

6 May 2023 at 20:14 | Open on mast.teamtuck.xyz

Em :official_verified:

@teamtuck Yes, and especially pictures of others where there is no consent.

6 May 2023 at 20:19 | Open on infosec.exchange

teamtuck

@Em0nM4stodon Exactly. “Shadow Profiles” are so bad and I hate it for our future generations who don’t want to participate in FB.

6 May 2023 at 20:20 | Open on mast.teamtuck.xyz

Em :official_verified:

@teamtuck :1000:

6 May 2023 at 20:32 | Open on infosec.exchange

Adam Greenfield

@Em0nM4stodon Honestly, some of us have been fighting this fight from before the beginning, and are now bone-tired. People run toward their chains, for little more than the promise of a little convenience, and I’m no longer sure anyone even has the right to try and stop them.

6 May 2023 at 20:19 | Open on social.coop

Em :official_verified:

@adamgreenfield Unfortunately a lot of people are misinformed about this. And many people also assume there are more regulations and mechanisms to protect them than there is.

The task is huge, yes. The task is continual, yes. It can be exhausting at time, yes. I am tired as well at time. But we cannot give up!

We can take breaks, we can support each others, we can take smaller less demanding steps, but we cannot give up.

6 May 2023 at 20:29 | Open on infosec.exchange

Adam Greenfield

@Em0nM4stodon Oh, I know, I know. We’re not at liberty to desist from the work, etc. I get it. But nothing else I have ever done is quite as thankless. I look back on the “ethical guidelines for ubiquitous computing” I first started framing out toward the end of 2004, and think: how arrogant, how thoroughly naive can someone be as to try and wrap an industry in ethics?

6 May 2023 at 20:44 | Open on social.coop

Adam Greenfield

@Em0nM4stodon And I feel like a whole new generation is learning what reward Cassandra earns, and then the redoubled pain of seeing the same people who’d hyped the damn thing all along belatedly Get Religion & have the mainstream media fall all over themselves to anoint them brave seers. The whole cycle is so grotesque.

6 May 2023 at 20:46 | Open on social.coop

The Doctor

@adamgreenfield @Em0nM4stodon They would start World War III because you tried to stop them.

6 May 2023 at 20:40 | Open on hackers.town

Rara

@adamgreenfield @Em0nM4stodon it’s convenience that’s the biggest issue here. That’s why I’m sorta okay with how Mastodon has changed their sign up process, and why I’m absolutely recommending things like CasaOS to friends in order to de-cloud their life. Convenience is the biggest hurdle for privacy friendly alternatives.

7 May 2023 at 12:11 | Open on mastodon.ie

The Old Reading Room

@Em0nM4stodon
This

6 May 2023 at 20:55 | Open on toot.community

lorddimwit: not a typewriter

@Em0nM4stodon

I’ve heard people my age (who would be either the youngest of GenX or the oldest of Millennials) referred to as “The Oregon Trail Generation” and I found that particularly apt.

6 May 2023 at 21:11 | Open on mastodon.social

Em :official_verified:

@lorddimwit Haha! That makes sense 😆

6 May 2023 at 21:18 | Open on infosec.exchange

Firehorseart lives!

@lorddimwit @Em0nM4stodon

As I hadn't heard that term before, I looked up 'Oregon Trail generation' and got:

>Xennials are a "micro-generation" born between 1977 and 1985. This group has also been called the "Oregon Trail Generation." Xennials may have been hit hardest by the recession because of a combination of student-loan debt, job loss, and other factors.

Wikipedia also has a page for Xennials.

This all seems to have a US bias.

#Xennial

7 May 2023 at 7:01 | Open on ohai.social

Zohan 🇨🇦🔐

@Em0nM4stodon I'm with you all the way 👊

6 May 2023 at 21:23 | Open on nerdculture.de

Em :official_verified:

@cyberman Let's do it! 👊

6 May 2023 at 21:26 | Open on infosec.exchange

ℛ𝒾𝒸𝒽𝒶𝓇𝒹 𝒞𝑜𝓁𝑒

@Em0nM4stodon
I'm a Boomer (1948) and take my privacy seriously. Any name I use here and on other social media, may or may not be my actual name. I buy domains so that I could give each usage of email an identifiable tag (ie Mastodon@mydomain.com) so when they were hacked, which over the last 15 years a lot have been, I can filter those emails into a black hole.
I clear cache, browsing history and cookies on exit from my browser.

Paranoid, Moi? No just cautious.

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6 May 2023 at 21:26 | Open on mastodonapp.uk

Em :official_verified:

@homeindorset Cautious yes, this is the way 👍

6 May 2023 at 21:28 | Open on infosec.exchange

OldeHippi 🦋🎨🙏🌺

@Em0nM4stodon

I remember "party lines"...... Talk about no privacy.......

6 May 2023 at 22:25 | Open on mindly.social

JJ Peterson

@Em0nM4stodon you realize many of us older than that are exactly the same and using generational labels is really a dumb way to divide us.

6 May 2023 at 22:49 | Open on toot.community

@Em0nM4stodon how all people here get into Nostalgia😅

6 May 2023 at 23:19 | Open on pagan.plus

Cyberfæ :pentacle:

@Em0nM4stodon I'm half millenial and half zoomer and more than half of my life ive lived without all of the things mentioned

7 May 2023 at 0:22 | Open on anarchism.space

Peter Butler

@Em0nM4stodon It certainly was wonderful to screen calls with answering machines and then just not call people back. OG ghosting

7 May 2023 at 0:27 | Open on mas.to

Topher 🌱🐧💚

@peterbutler @Em0nM4stodon

I just leave my voicemail always full so that nobody can ever leave me a message. Life hack level 100

7 May 2023 at 0:45 | Open on mastodon.online

Em :official_verified:

@topher @peterbutler But then, it becomes worse, they get impatient and come KNOCK AT YOUR DOOR! 😱😱😱

7 May 2023 at 1:58 | Open on infosec.exchange

DELETED

@Em0nM4stodon there's huge challenges in informing folks of what it even *is* that they're missing out on; the default is complete monitoring and visibility, with anonymity and general privacy being eschewed in favor of convenience and "connection". there is such a behemoth promoting the vast marketable-openess isn't exactly going to be keen to be undermined just because it was a good (or uh, "fashionable" past). most people, even in our generation skoff at the idea it even is a winnable situation, they're products and aren't interested in reflecting on the larger ramifications. all their data mined, minced, combined, and used to further disempower them, it almost seems hopeless. not trying to be cynical, but even after a decade plus of scandals with data mismanagement, there's zero signs of meaningful changes to attitudes and behaviours.

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7 May 2023 at 1:06 | Open on kolektiva.social

Em :official_verified:

@kone

I do see signs of meaningful changes though.

I think a lot more people are starting to realize the cost of this convenience. How much power and freedom they are loosing. And, more visibly perhaps, how much this can actually endanger them and their loved ones.

Unfortunately, overtime more people are getting victimize by this accessibility and are looking for ways to protect themselves and their loved ones by protecting their data.

In the past 6 years, I have seen the rise of so many privacy-oriented products and services. So many more offering end-to-end encryption. This is new and refreshing!

Moreover, these privacy-focused products and services are increasingly accessible to the general public with better UI/UX on every new version. We need to celebrate this! It is a big win and it keeps growing! 🎉

However, we also need to keep working hard to raise awareness and make sure regulation propositions that are trying to undermine privacy rights do not get implemented.

We also need to keep working hard to make sure laws protecting users’ privacy are stronger, better adapted to today’s technologies and even to *tomorrow*’s technologies, dare I say. As much as this can be feasible.

I see so much improvement since the past few years. It is discouraging that it is not going faster yes, and that so many people are still unaware and misinformed about this yes, but the battle is working.

We just need to keep battling and to NOT. GIVE. UP! ✊

@kone

I do see signs of meaningful changes though.

Unfortunately, overtime more people are getting victimize by this accessibility and are looking for ways to protect themselves and their loved ones by protecting their data.

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7 May 2023 at 2:18 | Open on infosec.exchange

Techronic9876

@Em0nM4stodon same thing for airplane travel before 9/11 too

7 May 2023 at 2:24 | Open on sigmoid.social

The Gentleman in Question

@Em0nM4stodon After the Tiananmen Square massacre, the Chinese government revealed the existence of a massive camera network, which could no longer be concealed, as the roundups began. Americans were so horrified by the terribleness of this policy of that repressive regime, that we began the process of duplicating it, and can only assume we've since exceeded it.

7 May 2023 at 2:43 | Open on mastodon.cloud

DDSnorth

@Em0nM4stodon well said.. had to be said.. so glad you said it. Orwell did warn us...

7 May 2023 at 7:17 | Open on mastodon.social

Pablo_43

@Em0nM4stodon

7 May 2023 at 9:20 | Open on mastodon.online

CaveDave

@Em0nM4stodon I'd say even younger millenials from outside the US. I'm from a European country which wasn't even considered a developed country until we joined the EU in 2004.

Mobile phones weren't a thing until the early to mid-2000s. Most of my friends didn't even have a home computer until 2002 and even then, it was one family PC in the middle of the corridor, for some reason. Street cameras and CCTVs didn't even exist anywhere.

7 May 2023 at 10:40 | Open on mastodon.social