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Top-level
"They also worked behind the scenes to marginalise those who pointed out the disturbing results and extraordinary costs." This conversation is always much more sinister to me because when I think of the voices who were marginalized it is either people who come from existing marginalized communities in tech (women, Black people, POC) or those who just generally care about making accessibility and inclusivity a foundation of the tech that we build. 13 comments
Like, was it just a cash grab, or was it ALSO a smattering of "hey pipe down with all that talk about inclusivity, that affects what, like 2% of our users, pft also what do you mean performance is better for accessibility, EYEROLL" I need someone who is much better at writing to talk about this intersection of bigotry and ignorance and how it led us to the current state of JS frameworks LOL Even typing that out seems like "wow that's kind of a leap" but then I also watched it happen so, yeah I feel like if I posted this on the other site it would just spawn subtweets like "🙄 wow guess I'm racist now because I like to use X framework" @hbuchel I'm no frontend JS expert but the guy seems to have hit a nail on the head. I now have a clear picture as to why *selecting text in an input field* in an internal corporate webapp I need to use is slow as shit. All powered by the newest shiny Dart frameworks giving tens of megabytes of JS for my browser to run. @hbuchel I also wish to add that pure client-side Javascript powered content rendering has made reliable archival of web information very hard. @enkiusz Oh yes. I remember some discussions about how this world of frameworks killed off that early "learn web dev by looking at view source" and people kind of hand waved that off ("who does that anymore", "there are better ways to learn", etc) But this is the other side of that. So many of these apps/websites are just broken if you try to archive/save them. @enkiusz And I feel like this is such a special part of the web, the GOOD part, the preserving of information. It's definitely deteriorated. @hbuchel would love to read this. i don't really follow much in like, various language communities, but the excessively fast churn of the javascript framework/tooling ecosystem vs. other languages feels quite exclusionary.  @hbuchel Oh yeah, that would be an interesting blogpost! If there's any merit to this idea? Good theory anyways...  @hbuchel Omg this. Father husband React, and disrupt-market-startup-acquire. And the venn diagram has tons of overlap. Both really white. Both really dismissive of disability. Both specifically and almost completely dismissive of longevity. @aredridel The "dismissive of longevity" part is so spot on, because who can afford to keep up with that? Those that are already "in" or those who have the cushion (money/time/support) to learn. While how we build for the web can and should evolve, it's very sad to me that the accessible (easy to enter into learning) side of web development was stomped all over in lieu of "no actually you need to know this really complex framework that only grows in complexity the larger your application is" |
Gregory's Server
I know it seems like I'm just talking about JS frameworks in general, but no one is going to convince me that the conclusion isn't there. I'm really not surprised that the white "Father, husband, React" crowd ignores the voices from those communities and that's largely why we are here, in this state of building things for the web in such a bad way.