@noa @blacklight I can feel some negative some negative...

@noa @blacklight I can feel some negative some negative energy implied into words of "a pride that they are a real hacker"

Whats wrong with spending your free time doing things you enjoy and feeling the way you enjoy feeling about it?

(also sourchut is actually great, but this is completely offtopic to my point. I would be 100% okay even if it would be totally unusable with pigeon post as the only means of communication)

Like 16 Oct 2022 at 16:26 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place

6 comments

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@fedor yes, there is negative energy. i have been insulted for my choice of tools many times by many of the people who flock to sourcehut, vim, etc, in discussions only tangentially related to those tools.

people can enjoy what they want in their free time and have their own interests, but i will always consider them a dick if they think they are somehow superior because of it (i feel the same about music)

fwiw i also use and like emacs, sourcehut, and other hackery type software.

16 Oct 2022 at 16:38 | Open on merveilles.town

Fedor

@noa I am not qualified in psycology enough to be sure about this

but I somehow feel like toxicity is a very unfortunate, but important step of "fucking around/finding out" on things.

Folks like belonging to groups and "holy wars" can give some sense of comradery I guess?

But I would not blame srht and strong opinions on things in general on people being toxic

16 Oct 2022 at 17:24 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place

Fabio Manganiello

@fedor @noa I have been using suckless software for a long time myself. I even converted my own website to a bash-like interface years ago. As I said earlier, I still use irssi and mutt a lot, and I've been a strong adherent to this aesthetic for a long time (although I've always disagreed on the fact that "minimal" needs to mean "minimalistically ugly and with no JS/CSS": that's just nostalgia of the 1990s that doesn't lead anywhere).

I've been in these discussions for almost two decades, and, while I believe that everybody is free to use the tools they want, or customize tools to their liking, we're also responsible as a FOSS community of being accessible.

If the good-looking and accessible software is either paid or privacy-invasive, while the free stuff has a steep learning curve and it discards all the UI/UX design patterns matured over the past two decades, most of the people will still choose the good-looking thing - and it's a game where we all lose out.

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16 Oct 2022 at 17:17 | Open on social.platypush.tech

Fedor

@blacklight @noa while I totally agree with your point I disagree on who "we" are and what "responsibility" means

Should I personally go redesign all FreeCAD/Gimp/Emacs UI to make it more accessible?

Or should I maintain full test coverage on a fun thing I ended up publishing on srht in 2018 that has 0 users?

When and on what responsibility kicks in?

16 Oct 2022 at 17:36 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place

Fedor

@blacklight @noa Honestly I think we are all on the same page here

If you say "I am cool FOSS project I will beat ProprietaryCompetitorX, give me your money" - you probably should work on being as accessible as possible, just by your public contract, I totally agree with that.

But I just want to say that this contract is not implicit for all FOSS. Did not publicly said this - bear no responsibility, do whatever.

16 Oct 2022 at 17:39 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place

Fedor

@blacklight @noa I, personally, draw a line even little further.

I consider myself resposible for my direct sponsors, people who are actually involved by paying money, contributing code etc. And I want to be attractive for new sponsors, just because I need more money hah

In my mind I do not held responsibility for anyone else. Overthing on "greater good" makes me go into a downward spiral of "not being good enough" and I am just not doing anything at all, which is not good for anyone.

16 Oct 2022 at 17:44 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place