Gregory's Server@yogthos planned capitalism ftw
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18 comments
@yogthos China is effectively managed capitalism, the CPC is made up of billionaires, China is also America's biggest trading partner, Most transnational corporations have large investments in the chinese economy. It's capitalism, but instead of a liberal democracy they have a one party system. Not that complicated.  @lagunacafe China is not effectively managed capitalism, or anything close to it. All the essential industry in China is state owned, it's governed by a communist party, and it demonstrably does not act like a capitalist country. If China was capitalist then we'd see the same things happening there that we see happening in actual capitalist countries. India is a perfect example of what capitalist path of development looks like. @yogthos we do see the same things happening in china as other capitalist countries, there's currently a housing crisis do to schumbag landlords and developers, workers unions are repressed, sometimes violently, the rich get richer the poor get poorer, there's also the turn towards nationalism and cultural conservatism. @lagunacafe no we absolutely do not see same things happening in China as other capitalist countries. Here's what we actually see happening: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/07/5-myths-about-global-poverty https://www.cgdev.org/blog/12-things-we-can-agree-about-global-poverty @lagunacafe @yogthos Capitalism, according to marx, like any comparable economic system i.e. fuedalism, is defined by the mode of production -- wage labor, and the division between capitalist and proletarian. A socialist mode of production would not have wage workers and it certainty wouldn't have billionaire capitalists ( at the helm of a "communist" party no less lmao ) the meme is actually correct at this point, China's greater economic stability and other good things are the result of planning @lagunacafe and as Marx and Lenin explain at length, you can't just flip a switch and turn a country communist. Transition to communism is a long and complex process that no country has achieved yet, and that is likely impossible to achieve while capitalism is the dominant ideology in the world. China is currently in the transitional socialist state where workers hold power, and core of the economy is under public control. @lagunacafe saying that China is capitalist because it hasn't been able to rid itself of capitalism at this stage makes as much sense as saying that Canada is communist because it has social services like free healthcare. @yogthos that sentence doesn't make any sense lol Canada has free healthcare like many capitalist countries, state spending and social welfare programs have been an integral part of capitalism for a long time. China likewise has a large welfare state. Ironically healthcare is not free in China. Both are capitalist countries, and their economies are intertwined to a large degree. @lagunacafe that actually makes perfect sense, because presence or absence of a certain thing doesn't make a state capitalist or socialist. Suggesting that shows an incredibly superficial understanding of socialism and communism. What makes China socialist is the fact that the core economy is under public ownership and that it's guided by a communist party through the socialist stage towards communism as the ultimate goal. @lagunacafe sure, China had a choice to isolate yourself the way USSR did and spend tremendous amounts of resources on its military, or it could make concessions to global capitalism and make itself look ideologically non threatening to the west. These concessions allowed China to bootstrap its technology and manufacturing from western companies and avoid having to spend huge amount of resources on the military. Seems to me that this was a very wise choice in retrospect. @yogthos Well, It seems to me China is transitioning in the direction of more capitalism, greater market liberalization, @lagunacafe here's what Lenin has to say on the subject. The path to communism isn't going to be a straight road. China has to exist within the realities of the world, which is dominated by capitalism, and it will necessarily have to make compromises along the way. China went through a period of market liberalization, and now it's very clearly being arrested. @lagunacafe I also encourage you to read Lenin on NEP, which basically describes precisely what China is doing https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/oct/17.htm  @yogthos @lagunacafe doing a fuckton of reading aside.. At one level it's right that China is gaining this prominence. That's for sure. And this is hardly likely this would happen with most people under abject poverty at the same time. USSR was, and China is on it's way to something that isn't at least 40% authoritarian state and 45% (authoritarian?) employer top down governance, really? Of course not, that'd require change incompatible with it's current ruling elites.. |
@lagunacafe except that it's not