@brennen @jonny yeah, one other point I’d like to add is that JavaScript is fine when writing webapps and the problem is only when everything is an app. Documents have many positive aspects and forcing people to use an app (anything with Javascript) means that almost always the experience degrades: less accessibility, less freedom in layout, theming, archiving, printing, navigation, and so on. The two problems are thus: apps instead of documents, and badly designed apps. In the case of things that are in fact apps that run on the virtual machine that is the browser, I have nothing against Javascript and use it myself. The fact that the virtual machine is super hard to implement and wouldn’t be necessary for simple hypertext online adds insult to injury.