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87 comments
molly in missouri

@dramypsyd LOL by the time you're on that trolley you've clearly been going along with some pretty f*d up sh*t for quite a while. You don't just build an entire murder-trolley-system without some help.
The answer is, by the time you've reached this point your only hope is to jump out the front of the trolley with whatever you have at hand and fight to derail the machine you helped set in motion

Dr. Amy, Psy.D.

@whatzaname Ok now this is a great metaphor for the world as it is now because I'm constantly like "why are these even the options" and "how did we get here"

molly in missouri

@dramypsyd i was an older college student and did a philosophy minor, and at the time it felt like just me who found the trolley problem to be a distraction from the obvious. No one just wakes up the driver of an out of control trolley, we should have always been trying to dismantle that faulty trolley and improve the safety of the tracks

Third spruce tree on the left

@dramypsyd

I know this shouldn't be the key takeaway here but I can't move on beyond those rail switches being drawn incorrectly (the one rail... has to ... cross.. the oth- oh Ill see myself out.)

Rihards Olups

@tezoatlipoca @dramypsyd
Perhaps it's a trick question. Pulling the lever would actually tear your trolley in half, killing everybody on your side.

\ˈthē-ˈˈärd-ˌvärk\

@dramypsyd
This problem would work equally as well if there were no "strangers" in the middle. But no..... philosophy has to kill at least someone, eh? it's not proper philosophy if no one dies!

Dr. Amy, Psy.D.

@theaardvark It's not a thought experiment unless someone dies

rickf

@dramypsyd I'd just blow up the tracks, b/c the disrailment would probably result in fewer fatalities.

blaue_Fledermaus

@rickf
Do you carry explosives everywhere? Usually the trolley problem is framed as you only barely having time to choose to flip the switch or not.
@dramypsyd

rickf

@blaue_Fledermaus @dramypsyd

This is a theoretical question so I offer a theoretial solution.

Dr. Amy, Psy.D.

@rickf @blaue_Fledermaus Hey maybe you do carry explosives everywhere in this alternate reality where your loved ones are thrown into trollies

rickf

@dramypsyd @blaue_Fledermaus

In a truly alternate theoretical universe I would Jedi mindtrick the f--ck out of the trolleys and everyone would be saved.

lions & tamsyn & bears, oh my!

@dramypsyd just one question: which tram is the Kobayashi Maru?

Brian Hawthorne

@dramypsyd @tezoatlipoca The regular trolley problem has already been solved, and that solution works here. Fortunately, this problem was stated as something that occurs in the real world, so real world physics come in to play.

If you throw the switch on trolley tracks AFTER the front wheels have crossed the switch but BEFORE the rear wheels, the trolley will stop.

blaue_Fledermaus

@bhawthorne
Easy "fix": the trolley has a mechanism that detects derailment and explodes everything if activated.
@dramypsyd @tezoatlipoca

Robert Link

@dramypsyd

Illusion of interdependence. I have really only one choice: Pull or don't pull. Pulling has two potential consequences, I don't control which will manifest. Not pulling has two potential consequences, I cannot control which will manifest.

Pulling: Loved ones live / three strangers die OR "almost everyone killed".

Not pulling: One loved one dies OR One loved one dies.

There's a hidden variable here too: I don't love strangers? But set that aside for now.

semanticrestructuring.com/pris

@dramypsyd

Illusion of interdependence. I have really only one choice: Pull or don't pull. Pulling has two potential consequences, I don't control which will manifest. Not pulling has two potential consequences, I cannot control which will manifest.

Pulling: Loved ones live / three strangers die OR "almost everyone killed".

Linza

@phaedral @dramypsyd Not pulling: one loved one dies and three loved ones might die. The problem is symmetrical, implying that your loved ones are their strangers and vice versa.

Edit: I examined the diagram late and now see the color code. Oof! Also you were correct.

Robert Link

@Linza @dramypsyd My mastodon instance doesn't allow enough characters for this, but I do not think you are reading the set up correctly. Each "player" has a trolley full of loved ones. Each "player" has to consider killing "one loved one on the tracks" or "three strangers on the tracks." If both pull their levers not only do three "strangers" die, but two trolleys of loved ones. Only the loved ones on the tracks would seem to survive.

No?

Did you like my prisdem page?

semanticrestructuring.com/pris

@Linza @dramypsyd My mastodon instance doesn't allow enough characters for this, but I do not think you are reading the set up correctly. Each "player" has a trolley full of loved ones. Each "player" has to consider killing "one loved one on the tracks" or "three strangers on the tracks." If both pull their levers not only do three "strangers" die, but two trolleys of loved ones. Only the loved ones on the tracks would seem to survive.

Linza

@dramypsyd Read the manual to locate the brake. Or, come what may, my next step will be to get my revenge on the asshole making trolleys with no brakes.

Kierkegaanks regretfully

@dramypsyd What if I hypothetically kill the author of the problem?

FuzzFace ☢️ :clippy:

@dramypsyd I’m always amused that people assume that rail switches are binary. In theory you could pull the lever halfway in the hopes of causing a derailment. Not an ideal solution, but it could turn out ok.

Willem Janssen

@fuzzface @dramypsyd Or… multi-track drifting. Killing everyone 😃! Well, except the switch pullers, but would they really be able to live with themselves after all that?

FuzzFace ☢️ :clippy:

@Wlm @dramypsyd Yup. It is a totally crappy solution, basically you are hoping the derailment doesn’t cause a bigger disaster.

FuzzFace ☢️ :clippy:

@Wlm @dramypsyd Also funny that the trolleys don’t ever have operators or emergency stop capabilities.

sidereal

@fuzzface @dramypsyd Yep, this is hilarious but it still has the same solution as all other trolley problems. At the speeds trolleys go, these derailments are pretty safe.

Meme. Trolley problem. Top text reads: "IWW IU 520 (Railroad Workers) PRESENTS: TROLLEY PROBLEM SOLUTION" It then shows a trolley passing through a switch. A figure stands off to one side next to a lever controlling the switch. In front of the trolley, on the track it is on, are tied 5 people. On the siding, there is one person tied up. A red arrow points towards the wheels of the trolley, which are equidistant over the middle of the switch. Bottom text reads "Slip the switch by flipping it while the trolley's front wheels have passed through, but before the back wheels do. This will cause a controlled derailment bringing the trolley to a safe halt."
Maggie Maybe

@sidereal I don’t know where this came from but I absolutely love them. This reminds me of a few years ago when the government was sending out those robot dogs and someone familiar with the design of the robot dogs published the blueprints showing you where you could grab the battery release lever below their throat causing the battery to fall out so they immediately stop working.

Whatever happened to all those robot dogs? Are they all down in Georgia playing in Cop city? Did we manage to stop Cop city or does it exist? I’m sorry I failed to keep up with all the atrocities during the Biden administration. I tried but it was a lot.

@sidereal I don’t know where this came from but I absolutely love them. This reminds me of a few years ago when the government was sending out those robot dogs and someone familiar with the design of the robot dogs published the blueprints showing you where you could grab the battery release lever below their throat causing the battery to fall out so they immediately stop working.

sidereal

@maggiejk Hahaha I made this meme after a conversation I had with some railroad workers who were like "man that trolley problem meme on the internet is so silly. They don't know about slipping the switch!"

Trump has robodawgs patrolling outside of Mar-a-lago lmao

sidereal

@jargoggles @fuzzface @dramypsyd Property damage that union workers will get paid to repair 🤣

Jargoggles

@sidereal @fuzzface @dramypsyd
But won't anyone think of the person who owns the trolley company? They worked hard to inherit it from their dad.

FuzzFace ☢️ :clippy:

@jargoggles @sidereal @dramypsyd Technically they are. If anyone dies, the Trolley Company gets sued. Not an issue of fault, simply where the money is.

Jargoggles

@fuzzface @sidereal @dramypsyd
Sounds like that would only be a problem for anyone who didn't buy the judge a new boat.

zl2tod

@sidereal

Unless the derailed trolley slides broadside along both tracks killing all.

Dead men tell no tales though.

@fuzzface @dramypsyd

Trenbide Katua
@dramypsyd One good solution would be to scream at the top of my lungs: “JUMP OFF THE TROLLEY; IT'S GOING SLOW ENOUGH TO TAKE THAT TURNOUT WITHOUT DERAILING!”
Jay 🇺🇦

@dramypsyd
The ideal scenario for those operating the levers is one lever pulled.
First you determine if one of the dudes on the tracks is just a racist uncle - easy choice. If not, you toss a coin with the other person for fairness.
Sacrifice: 1 family member (probably just your racist uncle), 3 strangers (probably racist uncles, too).

No wait, ideal scenario is two racist uncles, no levers pulled, Thanksgiving dinners improved! (*draws tiny MAGA hats on uncles tied to tracks).

@dramypsyd
The ideal scenario for those operating the levers is one lever pulled.
First you determine if one of the dudes on the tracks is just a racist uncle - easy choice. If not, you toss a coin with the other person for fairness.
Sacrifice: 1 family member (probably just your racist uncle), 3 strangers (probably racist uncles, too).

Lexi, procrastinador asesor

@dramypsyd this is probably the best thing i've seen in many years!

soc

@dramypsyd I would have a serious talk with my loved ones in which I'd question the necessity of their use of trolleys as a means of transportation.

camera

@dramypsyd why do they think,so much about hypothetical situations in which thsy have to kill people

Jay

@dramypsyd …for some reason my first thought at seeing the picture was “Frogger meets the trolley problem” and had to pause to think what that would be like.

I’m still not sure.

Dr. Amy, Psy.D.

@WhiteCatTamer Ooooh but I’m fascinated by this concept

Michael T. Bacon, Ph.D.

@dramypsyd Okay but what if every 10 seconds, the trains close half the distance to the prisoners, and then close half the distance again, and then . . .

Jester 🪓

@dramypsyd As a railroader, the solution is simple. The operator of one switch throws his switch half way, and tells to the other operator to do the same. Both trolleys derail and harmlessly come to a stop, and no one dies.

albi von skládka 🇨🇿
@dramypsyd call dibs on the middle track and watch the loser on the other side weep for their loved one - double winning

am I doing this right?
Alexan Vorritold

@dramypsyd it's the boat scene in Batman dark knight

RowinSpeez

@dramypsyd This is just a picture of the premise of Dr. Strangelove.

The solution would be to flip your switch first, then rhetorically vilify the other switch operator if they flip theirs too.

Rose, Naenia Typica

@dramypsyd

lol.

Also the best case scenario is still that no one pulls any levers.

CIMB4

@dramypsyd i walk away, thus avoiding confrontation with a moral dilemma.

Sylvain

@dramypsyd pull the lever faster than the other it will become his problemma xD

Anthk

@dramypsyd congrats philosophers, you finally ended into Math: game theory.

Schafstelze

@dramypsyd who on this earth has a trolley full of loved ones? Do they have to love you back? Do i have to love all of them the same? Would anyone of them pull the lever for me?
And, most important, who is "almost everyone" dying? Am i included?

I might pull the... OH A SQUIRREL!!! 😍😍😍

don

@dramypsyd let's just Rube Goldberg the sh*t out of this.

DeManiak 🇿🇦

@dramypsyd aaaaah game theory....yeah.... ok... lets go get drunk

s427

@dramypsyd @jehansanspour I mean, this is just the Prisoner's Dilemma with a fake mustache, isn't it?

Kenneth Freeman

@dramypsyd
The other person on the other side of the tracks is facing the same problem because his loved ones and your loved ones are the same set on your side of the tracks. This simplifies matters considerably: Consolidate the loved ones and increase the strangers.

Log 🪵

@dramypsyd These people living near the trolley tracks should really form a union to collectively bargain with the philosophers.

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