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nobletrout

@jwildeboer do you think undernet and other IRC servers didn’t (don’t?) have a running cost? Or that the owners of those servers weren’t or had some special power to not monitor and collect all the data? You still needed an IRC client, half of which were shareware/nonfree. All the communication was unencrypted so any entity between you and the server could monitor and read all comms. Even trivially insert or delete messages if they wanted.

I don’t really see the distinction between entity 1 providing a free chat service and entity 2 doing it.

If your beef is more that people have gotten lazy about their decision making process, then I’m all for a mindset change. It sucks having decisions made and then no reference to them.

8 comments
Carlos O'Donell

@nobletrout @jwildeboer Hard agree. For me this is about project governance, and infrastructure governance along with sustainable fund raising models (includes corporate sponsors). We must raise funding to support FOSS solution providers that respect privacy and user freedoms. Unpopular opinion: It does a disservice to our communities if we all stand up forgejo instances without considering that if we all put that money towards something like CodeBerg, that we might get a solution we all need.

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@codonell (FTR: I am a paying member of Codeberg, moved most of my projects there and am also running my own forgejo instance :) @nobletrout

Carlos O'Donell

@jwildeboer @nobletrout I figured you were, and I wrote "without considering" purposely. It is absolutely OK to do this for yourself, I don't object to that, but as @nobletrout says, and I agree with, we need a mindset change where we consider our options and their consequences. Consider if the top 3 downstream distribution put all of their sources on CodeBerg, and put all that funding in the same place? Imagine being able to do PRs against the same debian, gentoo, and fedora sources?

Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

@codonell I am not a big fan of centralisation. Forgejo is working hard to integrate ActivityPub so that ultimately you can file issues, pull requests etc to any instance with your preferred AP account. It's going to take a while to get there, but that's the future I am hoping for. Decentralised, distributed, open. @nobletrout

Chewie

@nobletrout
Well, with IRC, you could easily log all the discussions in text format and share them on an open website.

I don't think that's possible with Slack or Discord is it?

It's not the collection that is the problem, it's the transparency.

I was going to join a Discord channel to see if I could help a particular project, and they wanted a phone number before I could type anything!!
I dont think so....

As I see it, the cost isn't the issue here. "Open" doesn't necessarily have to equal "Free".

I am totally in agreement with @jwildeboer on this

@nobletrout
Well, with IRC, you could easily log all the discussions in text format and share them on an open website.

I don't think that's possible with Slack or Discord is it?

It's not the collection that is the problem, it's the transparency.

I was going to join a Discord channel to see if I could help a particular project, and they wanted a phone number before I could type anything!!
I dont think so....

Proxfox Virtual Environment 🦊

@chewie @nobletrout @jwildeboer

> I don't think that's possible with Slack or Discord is it?

Why wouldn't it be? Discord and I'm pretty sure Slack let you build bots just like you can on Discord. The only difference is that Slack & Discord have message history built in, so yes, you still have to register an account and join a server/workspace but i've done the "just dump messages to a txt file" on Discord a while ago and the only thing stopping me from pointing Apache2 at that folder was me not wanting to invade on the privacy of the people in the chat

@chewie @nobletrout @jwildeboer

> I don't think that's possible with Slack or Discord is it?

Why wouldn't it be? Discord and I'm pretty sure Slack let you build bots just like you can on Discord. The only difference is that Slack & Discord have message history built in, so yes, you still have to register an account and join a server/workspace but i've done the "just dump messages to a txt file" on Discord a while ago and the only thing stopping me from pointing Apache2 at that folder was me not wanting...

Chewie

@tay

OK, fair enough.
I have no idea what bots are capable of on those systems :)

Anthk

@nobletrout @jwildeboer
>Propietary. Not under any Libre Unix.
>Security. TLS it's a thing. So are restricted channels for non-authenticated IRC users.

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