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Radical Edward :hackers_town:

when you regret open sourcing Java because eventually your daughter has to learn it

Screenshot of a Facebook post from Jill Malony Ratkevic:

"I regret ever Open Sourcing Java, for so many reasons.... mostly since my daughter is now coding.

Turns out Scott McNealy let me open source 1,600 patents in one day back in January 2005. I got to fight with legal for two days and as a reward I got to then Open Source Java and argue more. Scott was very aspirational and forward thinking -- so when I wrote that "all high school students one day will learn to code with Java" in the press release, it never actually occurred to me that fast forward to 2021 my daughter would be using Java. Scott was right. I was right.

Yet, here we are. Turns out my husband is really "embedded" and isn't a Emacs or Java fan (and I worked with James Gosling, I am so so sorry for this!). So the vi fan in my kitchen questioning why things are called this or that is like a full on religious war right now and "blame your mother for this" has been used at least 4X in the last two weeks.

It wasn't the Oracle purchase, the Supreme Court drama, the patent drama or even the battles back in 2005 between internal software groups at Sun that bother me about the whole experience ..... it's my daughter and husband discussing her homework that is beyond painful now. Oy."
18 comments
Leniwcowaty :linuxmintnew:

@RadicalEdward if that's not peak "Why Java is shit" moment, I don't know what is! 😆

Alexander The 1st

@leniwcowaty @RadicalEdward That to me feels like the wrong take for it - it's her husband who never liked Java who seems to be the source of the problem.

Her daughter learning Java? Seems like a positive outcome, even if her husband hates it because he prefers vim.

Alexander The 1st

@leniwcowaty @RadicalEdward Or as a TL:DR; Open Sourcing vi was a mistake, not Java.

Sam Whited

@RadicalEdward hah, love this. I once sat next to a woman on a plane who looked over and said something along the lines of "do you mind if I ask why you're writing Go instead of Java?" and I said that I'd wasted years of my life trying to tweak the million settings to make the Java garbage collector behave and she replied "oh, I wrote that". I both felt slightly bad for being rude, and was also mad at her for the hell she put me through. For the rest of the flight we sat in stony silence.

Lou Plummer :prami:

@sam @RadicalEdward That may be the best airplane story I have ever heard

Irene Zhang

@sam @RadicalEdward lol, if you are angry about the Go garbage collector now, I know the person that wrote that too.

Sam Whited

@irene @RadicalEdward I've never had a problem with that one, it's mostly just been good enough, maybe with the occasional long pause while under heavy load that had to be worked around. If it's complaints about Go you want though, I'll gripe about the strict control the Go team maintains over the language and how much I hate the proxy and packaging systems all day :)

Sam Whited

@irene @RadicalEdward (I used to know a lot of people on the Go team as well, no idea if any of them are still there though, it's been years since I contributed at all and I mostly just try to avoid interfacing with Google as much as possible these days)

Irene Zhang

@sam @RadicalEdward yes, I told Austin (the person that wrote the garbage collector) that Go was like a dictatorship and Rust is anarchy.

Stacey Campbell

@RadicalEdward Oh dear.

I worked at Sun for a year in 1994, and Java was kicking around inside the company (I used to skate at the Sun-employee pickup hockey game every week with McNealy and Naughton, so I heard a bit about Java in the locker room).

I gave that early version of Java a spin, but then they changed it a fair bit before it got out into the wild rendering a good chunk of what I learned useless. So I gave up on Java and eased my way into embedded C, which along with Verilog, was enough to keep me in work to retirement last year. As a 40 or so year vi user, I'm with the husband on this one.

@RadicalEdward Oh dear.

I worked at Sun for a year in 1994, and Java was kicking around inside the company (I used to skate at the Sun-employee pickup hockey game every week with McNealy and Naughton, so I heard a bit about Java in the locker room).

I gave that early version of Java a spin, but then they changed it a fair bit before it got out into the wild rendering a good chunk of what I learned useless. So I gave up on Java and eased my way into embedded C, which along with Verilog, was enough...

Robin

@RadicalEdward
I taught Java at uni because someone decided it was a good language to get new programmers using, and I was a lowly lab tutor so had no say.* The amount of times I had to explain "ignore what public static void main string args is, it's not important right now"...

* Actually at the time I don't think I realised it wasn't a great intro language, but I see it better now

elmuerte

@RadicalEdward I "had" to learn Java at the university in 1999, years before it was open source. So the argument is moot.
I also had to learn a proprietary functional language: Miranda. And learn other proprietary stuff like MATLAB and Maple
Guess what stuff I still use.

Asta [AMP]

@RadicalEdward@hackers.town "I wish for java to be open source!" monkey paw finger furls

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